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What NOT To Do On Walking Bass
- Thread starter Quinn Roberts
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This is a very informative post! I've never really thought of a comparison between walking bass and voice leading, but it does make a lot of sense. If you were comping on a six-string you probably wouldn't be flying all over the place going from a Dm7 on the E string to a G7 that's seven frets down on the same string, instead you'd play something like a G7/D going from one chord to the next in a clear, melodic, step-by-step path, maybe even saving an interval jump or two for a sense of dynamic push.
If you play fretless or upright you can adjust the tuning of notes in a walk, based on what chord or scale you are coming from and going to.
One example is walking a 'C' up to the octave when you hit 'B' it should be a tiny bit sharp to sound good. If you are right in tune it will not sound 'good', if you are a bit flat it will sound really off. Going down the scale from 'C' the 'Bb' or 'B' normally should not be sharp to sound 'correct' or 'good'. Always exceptions to every rule of course.
This is a small part of the reason fretless and uprights sound good for walking lines, vs fretted (the ability to mess with intonation within a scale).
One example is walking a 'C' up to the octave when you hit 'B' it should be a tiny bit sharp to sound good. If you are right in tune it will not sound 'good', if you are a bit flat it will sound really off. Going down the scale from 'C' the 'Bb' or 'B' normally should not be sharp to sound 'correct' or 'good'. Always exceptions to every rule of course.
This is a small part of the reason fretless and uprights sound good for walking lines, vs fretted (the ability to mess with intonation within a scale).
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I'm looking more and more into getting an upright bass, both for education purposes and simply because I love how they sound. It's stuff like this that I couldn't even fathom having only played a fretted bass before, but it's a very interesting idea. I've tried reading into various tuning systems before, and I wonder if the reason for notes sounding better through various intonations is due to the fact that the TET system we use for guitar tuning is so static.
The following is the best advice I've heard while writing and playing.
While technically that's correct, musically it's not.
I'll notate something out following conventions and my weird sensibilities, then I'll hear it and tweak until it "sounds" right. Being musical to me is so much more important than slugging a flat3 double reverse mocha appregiagted upside down chord 3rd inversion into a walking line. get a groove going, hit hard on the one or three. Mute things every other measure
Variety rules, keep it simple.
While technically that's correct, musically it's not.
I'll notate something out following conventions and my weird sensibilities, then I'll hear it and tweak until it "sounds" right. Being musical to me is so much more important than slugging a flat3 double reverse mocha appregiagted upside down chord 3rd inversion into a walking line. get a groove going, hit hard on the one or three. Mute things every other measure
Variety rules, keep it simple.
Oh, as far as the flatted 3rd question...the flatted 3rd against a major 3rd has been used forever in blues, rock, R&B, and funk. That interval has a very specific sound that, while not necessarily "diatonically correct", is pleasing to the ear due to the slight dissonance. It's why guitarists can get away with playing minor pentatonics over major chords. Accordingly, choosing to play the flatted 3rd is just another tool in the tonal toolkit. Use or avoid based upon the musical goal at the moment.
DO NOT try to learn walking bass from a book without transcribing tons of basslines yourself
transcribe this. bass on left, tenor on right. pan to the left. easy to hear the line. its a blues. transcribe all the aebersold bass lines you can get your hands on. they're very good for learning walking
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Here are three "nevers" that I try to keep in mind for walking bass lines.
- Never forget that walking bass is as much about where you're going as it is about where you are. Without getting into the weeds on some of the discussion that's already taken place in this thread, note choices that may not necessarily be part of the current harmony can work if they move your line forward to the next chord. For example, I probably wouldn't ever play a D# on a C major chord on the downbeat of 1 at ballad tempo, but I probably wouldn't hesitate to play it on beat 4 where the next chord is an E minor. And I think this is especially true at faster tempos.
- Never forget to listen to what the other players are playing. Can you play an Eb on the downbeat of 1 on an A7 chord? Well, probably not if it's the I chord of a blues tune, or if you're playing with a guitarist playing power chords with root-fifth, but absolutely yes if it's an Em7 A7 | Dmaj7 progression and your piano player is doing a tritone substitution of an Eb7#11 for the A7. Always keep your ears open and listen to what's going on around you.
- Never lose time. You'll inevitably have those moments ... your sax player is tearing it up on his seventh chorus of All The Things You Are. You're trying to be creative and come up with a new line you haven't played before. You get to the Fmin | Bb7 at top of the form, you think of this thread, and suddenly you think, "Oh no! Do I play Bb B C D over the Bb7 chord, or Bb C C# D?!?!" So you hesitate for a split second while you decide, and suddenly you've totally screwed up the pocket. While it's obviously best to make good note choices in time, as a general rule, I'd rather play a bad note in time than a good note out of time.
edit, i forgot to include the link in my original post. you can learn a lot from milt hinton here
To my regret, there is a lot of music where even superb double bass players sound a little bit off.
Currently, I'm listening to Thomas Fonnesbæk's (excellent Double bass player) new album with Justin Kauflin (piano), Synesthesia. Thomas plays quite a few "de-tuned" notes on a several tracks, and it distracts me a little bit from just having pure pleasure.
I could not find on youtube that album; therefore, here is a live performance with Thomas Fonnesbek and Justin Kauflin.
You play the double bass - what is your opinion about those "off-tune" notes?
I love Thomas Fonnesbaek's bass playing!
Sure he gets a bit out of tune on some phrases, he's at the hard end of the fingerboard. He is playing live, with all the volume of the drums and piano beside him, no headphones no partitions and he is into the toughest end of the bass. The best player will have trouble getting everything perfect and in tune under these circumstances. Probably he hardly hears his notes, we may be hearing it better than him on our headphones.
Great player, awesome feel, killer chops.
Gary Karr, considered the finest classical bass soloist in the world, does not ALWAYS sound perfectly in tune like a fine violinist. The upright is a hard instrument to always play perfectly.
This reminds me of two jazz gigs I played a few years back at the same club. On the first gig we had a pianist who is a bit of a virtuoso. He really had chops but was a bit high strung. He HATED the piano, felt it was out of tune and really was not happy all night, rolling his eyes. He played just ok. On the second week we had a different piano player, but also a top guy in town. I stood right beside him all night. He killed it and the band sound great all night. As a test, part way through the night I ask him 'what do you think of the piano'? He replyed with a shrug 'fine, why you ask'? He knew it was off tune but worked with it, really well.
My point is if Thomas Fonnesbaek, Gary Karr and my piano friend play with passion & really well I will forgive some rather minor intonation issues.
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The 1-2-both thirds is a very solid walking line. The way I learned, there are three approaches to constructing a bass line:
1. Chromatic
2. Scalar
3. Arppeggios
You can use these three methods all together to construct baselines. Scale one bar, chromatic approach tones (which is what you have in the 1-2-both thirds; a double lower chromatic approach tone)
If I had to write down some bassline "Don'ts" they would be these:
1. Be wary of starting the line with a non-chord tone
2. Try to avoid very disjunct motion
3. If you're going to play only 1 third, make it the one in the chord.
Hope this helps!
1. Chromatic
2. Scalar
3. Arppeggios
You can use these three methods all together to construct baselines. Scale one bar, chromatic approach tones (which is what you have in the 1-2-both thirds; a double lower chromatic approach tone)
If I had to write down some bassline "Don'ts" they would be these:
1. Be wary of starting the line with a non-chord tone
2. Try to avoid very disjunct motion
3. If you're going to play only 1 third, make it the one in the chord.
Hope this helps!
My two cents. Keep your ears open. You can go many ways around a progression as long as you accompany the melody and the soloists gracefully.
Just a few avoids here:
Don't rush or slow down the beat. Don't be too loud. Avoid landing on a chromaticism, or a perfect fourth in a major seventh chord since gravitational pull is strong (it's a typical avoid note).
Be aware of the type of tune you are playing (is it modal? A blues? A ballad?) Walk with a metronome at half speed and use beeps as beats two and four.
Listen to several legit interpretations of a tune you are learning.
Have fun!
Just a few avoids here:
Don't rush or slow down the beat. Don't be too loud. Avoid landing on a chromaticism, or a perfect fourth in a major seventh chord since gravitational pull is strong (it's a typical avoid note).
Be aware of the type of tune you are playing (is it modal? A blues? A ballad?) Walk with a metronome at half speed and use beeps as beats two and four.
Listen to several legit interpretations of a tune you are learning.
Have fun!
Regarding the chromatic passing tone over a dominant chord leading to the root of the next chord change, I could post a large and potentially annoying couple of paragraphs about chromatic passing tones and approach tones, but in the end it comes down to this:
If it was good enough for Ray Brown/Ron Carter/Sam Jones/Paul Chambers/Percy Heath/Rufus Reid/Christian McBride among many, many others, it is certainly good enough for me.
I learned to build lines from imitating these players because what they played on all of these great records sounded great to me.
I teach music theory for a living both in the classical and jazz spheres (and both paradigms of harmony and melodic harmonic relation are amazingly similar). One thing I try to tell my classes early and often is that the music always comes first. The theory comes later as somebody's attempt to put a label or explanation on an iconic sound that was already in practice by the composers/improvisers of the day. These original creators of the music-thateventually-became-codified were writing and playing sounds not because they were "correct" according to a book, but because the sounds in question sounded good and right to them in the context of the music they were making.
For this reason, in my opinion we should always try to put the music first. Don't start by asking if something is correct; rather, start by asking yourself if it sounds good to you. If it doesn't, don't play it unless/until you reach a point where it does sound good. If it already sounds good to you, then play it until it no longer does, then replace it with something you feel sounds better. IMO, that's what great musicians do.
As far as "what not to do on walking lines", a couple of things come to mind:
- Don't let worrying about finding the "correct" note ever interfere with your time and groove. The right note at the wrong time is no longer the right note. The right note played with bad time is worse than a wrong note played with great time.
- Don't spend so much time arguing with strangers on the internet about note choices that you no longer have time to practice. Life - and practice time - is too short.
If it was good enough for Ray Brown/Ron Carter/Sam Jones/Paul Chambers/Percy Heath/Rufus Reid/Christian McBride among many, many others, it is certainly good enough for me.
I learned to build lines from imitating these players because what they played on all of these great records sounded great to me.I teach music theory for a living both in the classical and jazz spheres (and both paradigms of harmony and melodic harmonic relation are amazingly similar). One thing I try to tell my classes early and often is that the music always comes first. The theory comes later as somebody's attempt to put a label or explanation on an iconic sound that was already in practice by the composers/improvisers of the day. These original creators of the music-thateventually-became-codified were writing and playing sounds not because they were "correct" according to a book, but because the sounds in question sounded good and right to them in the context of the music they were making.
For this reason, in my opinion we should always try to put the music first. Don't start by asking if something is correct; rather, start by asking yourself if it sounds good to you. If it doesn't, don't play it unless/until you reach a point where it does sound good. If it already sounds good to you, then play it until it no longer does, then replace it with something you feel sounds better. IMO, that's what great musicians do.
As far as "what not to do on walking lines", a couple of things come to mind:
- Don't let worrying about finding the "correct" note ever interfere with your time and groove. The right note at the wrong time is no longer the right note. The right note played with bad time is worse than a wrong note played with great time.
- Don't spend so much time arguing with strangers on the internet about note choices that you no longer have time to practice. Life - and practice time - is too short.
I didn't bother to read all of the replies, so sorry.
I've played upright in a trio for quite a while. There are a couple of rules that can help you get started. Please bear in mind, that all rules are made to be broken, and I break them all the dang time.
1. Play a root on one.
2. Play a chord tone on a strong beat.
3. Everything else is a passing note.
4. Try to avoid leaps higher than a major sixth.
Your job is to outline the harmony, and keep time. Remember, your pianist (if he's any good) is playing rootless voicings. If the chord is Dm7, he's probably playing Fmaj7 or Am7 with out a D in there at all. It's your job to make that thing sound like Dm. This is why the bass is so important. We are the boss.
Good luck! Also, Ray Brown/P.C transcriptions are great things to look at. Rufus Reid's book is also very good for this stuff.
I've played upright in a trio for quite a while. There are a couple of rules that can help you get started. Please bear in mind, that all rules are made to be broken, and I break them all the dang time.
1. Play a root on one.
2. Play a chord tone on a strong beat.
3. Everything else is a passing note.
4. Try to avoid leaps higher than a major sixth.
Your job is to outline the harmony, and keep time. Remember, your pianist (if he's any good) is playing rootless voicings. If the chord is Dm7, he's probably playing Fmaj7 or Am7 with out a D in there at all. It's your job to make that thing sound like Dm. This is why the bass is so important. We are the boss.
Good luck! Also, Ray Brown/P.C transcriptions are great things to look at. Rufus Reid's book is also very good for this stuff.
This. If there's one "don't", it's don't hesitate. You are part of the rhythm section, so keep plugging along with the rhythm. 99% of audience members won't notice or remember a few crazy-sour notes along the way, but everyone will notice if you get out of time, or heaven forbid, stop entirely until you figure out a good note. Even if you get lost in the form, keep hitting notes in time, hopefully vaguely in the key of the piece, until you find where you are again.
Confidential to my bandmates: I never zone out and get lost while playing the simplest of forms, faking my way through transitions until I find where you are again.
Confidential to everyone else: I lie to my bandmates.
This question is a bit like asking a group of artists what’s the do/donts of using different colors.
I’ve (honestly) wondered what it’s like to NOT be able to play by ear, or intuitively anticipate chord changes, and then react accordingly. Browsing these posts kind of answers that for me. Don’t get me wrong, I’m formally educated, but you “learn it to forget it.” How can a musician expect to play fluently with so much thinking going on?
If you have an opportunity to throw in a note that’s not in the scale, go for it. If it sounds awful, you just learned a lesson.
Listen to Bach. Yes, Johann Sebastian Bach. Listen to how he uses a monophonic ( big word for meaning one note ) line to imply polyphonic ( that's like chords; multiple sounding notes) ideas. If you're really into it, get the Bach Cello Suites, and maybe Bach Riemenschneider 371 Harmonized Chorales and 69 Chorale Melodies. Listen and look. (Ron Carter and Ray Brown BIG advocates of JSB).
The idea is to get your lines to flow over many bars, not just sound 'here's this chord, and then another chord, etc.' You'll start seeing patterns and intervals that really open the doors to new places on your basses!
Sometimes, outlining the chord is just what is needed. You might think your line is hip, but the real deal is not only playing interesting lines, but how those lines compliment what is going on above you. Even on something as seemingly easy as playing classic country ( Joe Osborne, Michael Rhodes..SPACE IS THE PLACE...AND IT'S TIME), it's all about; 1) where you place your notes; 2) what notes you play; 3) duration of your notes.
I have heard too many times from other unaware players who say, " Well, country bass is just 1--5--1--5. ( much of the Broadway repertoire, too)...BUT IT ISN'T. Say we have 2 bars of Cmaj, but then we go to G7 in bar three. You play C--G--C--G/C--G--C--G/G--D--G--D, etc. See the ambiguity? That G on beat four of bar 2 and G again on beat one of bar three work, yes...but not strong. Bluegrass, Country players might rather play: C--G--C--G/C--G--C--C [or C--G--C--D] to get to the G. It's a powerful world down there in bassland!
It's your function as a bassist to lay down a harmonic and rhythmic foundation (and harmonic rhythm--but that's another book). The great bassist/composer Charles Mingus said [paraphrased] ' I want to be a thick, plush carpet for all to walk barefoot upon.' Dig that? Think about that with your lines.
Also, try putting your metronome on beats 2 and 4. It will help with your feel, time and swing. It's about two and four in much of our popular music. Guys snapping off on one and three...be weary...it's Pat Boone time. Miles would have had them shot.
Watch the 4th degree in major and dominant chords. Ex: In a C maj chord, F is a pretty tough note to highlight (F# is nice in some circumstances--your #11, a fave of many composers and players--lydian for your 'scale heads'). It's a good note for your minor chords.
Motown's James Jamerson took his jazz line playing and brought it to popular music, to the point where he almost is playing a duet with the melody above--that's where things get beautiful, and it made his work outstanding. Think about that with your lines. Bass is essentially just another voice, and thinking that way might help you from getting more musically 'right' than technically correct (that's math, not music.)
The idea is to get your lines to flow over many bars, not just sound 'here's this chord, and then another chord, etc.' You'll start seeing patterns and intervals that really open the doors to new places on your basses!
Sometimes, outlining the chord is just what is needed. You might think your line is hip, but the real deal is not only playing interesting lines, but how those lines compliment what is going on above you. Even on something as seemingly easy as playing classic country ( Joe Osborne, Michael Rhodes..SPACE IS THE PLACE...AND IT'S TIME), it's all about; 1) where you place your notes; 2) what notes you play; 3) duration of your notes.
I have heard too many times from other unaware players who say, " Well, country bass is just 1--5--1--5. ( much of the Broadway repertoire, too)...BUT IT ISN'T. Say we have 2 bars of Cmaj, but then we go to G7 in bar three. You play C--G--C--G/C--G--C--G/G--D--G--D, etc. See the ambiguity? That G on beat four of bar 2 and G again on beat one of bar three work, yes...but not strong. Bluegrass, Country players might rather play: C--G--C--G/C--G--C--C [or C--G--C--D] to get to the G. It's a powerful world down there in bassland!
It's your function as a bassist to lay down a harmonic and rhythmic foundation (and harmonic rhythm--but that's another book). The great bassist/composer Charles Mingus said [paraphrased] ' I want to be a thick, plush carpet for all to walk barefoot upon.' Dig that? Think about that with your lines.
Also, try putting your metronome on beats 2 and 4. It will help with your feel, time and swing. It's about two and four in much of our popular music. Guys snapping off on one and three...be weary...it's Pat Boone time. Miles would have had them shot.
Watch the 4th degree in major and dominant chords. Ex: In a C maj chord, F is a pretty tough note to highlight (F# is nice in some circumstances--your #11, a fave of many composers and players--lydian for your 'scale heads'). It's a good note for your minor chords.
Motown's James Jamerson took his jazz line playing and brought it to popular music, to the point where he almost is playing a duet with the melody above--that's where things get beautiful, and it made his work outstanding. Think about that with your lines. Bass is essentially just another voice, and thinking that way might help you from getting more musically 'right' than technically correct (that's math, not music.)
