What poor technique will hinder your progress most as a bassist?

[Aussie Player]

Not knowing how to slap and not caring to learn how to do it.

God I hate slap, That treble sound is fingernails up a chalkboard.
I play bass. I chose to play bass. I find it most offensive when treble is screached from a bass guitar.
Cannot like it and shut down immediately when it occurs within any product review.

 

[ProbablyTooLoud]

One thing is certain: if you tell yourself "it's hard to break an old habit and learn a new one", then it will be.

That's how it works for you huh?
Bummer.

 

[WrapRough]

I convinced myself for years that I didn't need to read or really study the theory side. Deep down I knew I was lying to myself.

 

[doran.dragic]

Yep,
Agree with that one, but get PO'd at the experts that claim or infer it is mandatory for competence as most academic musicians scratch for a living and never achieve fame and the wealth that comes from that simply because they are no innovative and innovation comes from within. We all know the names of the people in the 60's as already mentioned but they came from an academic beginning whereas the generations that followed are mostly self taught. Here's a fact, some begin with formal education and drop it because it stereotypes and constructs outputs of interest.

Even Jack Bruce who was an academic musician stated that he had to unlearn everything he had learned in order to learn improvisation which is where his learning came from. (All stated in the 1968 last concert video)

This is complete nonsense. The reason why so many trained musicians are broke is not because they lack individuality. It's because there's so many schools producing and the competition is big. Also there are less jobs for musicians because so much music is made with computers and don't require musicans to record or perform music. If anything individuality is going to be a hinderance in situations where people expect you to be able to play in a certain way.

The part about Jack Bruce doesn't really make sense to me either because you can't really forget the skills that you learn. And I know this quote because this is something that a lot of people say to you in a music school. Learn everything but then forget it.

A lot of being good in music is training your brains and body to do specific things at specific time. To hear a chord and recognize it. To play in time. Many other things. It's not something that you forget.

What changes is the basic set of rules under which you perform or compose. I haven't heard heard Jack Bruce's interview but I assume that he was talking about blues which for somebody trained classicaly in his time would mean a big change. But having trained ears and seeing how this system differs from one that he already knew is a great advantage already.

EDIT: I reread your post and I noticed that you refer to improvisation. To this I can say that many classicaly trained musicians improvisation are great improvisers and it used to be an important part of classical music historically. It's just another skill or another set of principles that you learn. Another language if you will. Those who don't are those who never tried.

 

[JimmyM]

Yep,
Agree with that one, but get PO'd at the experts that claim or infer it is mandatory for competence as most academic musicians scratch for a living and never achieve fame and the wealth that comes from that simply because they are no innovative and innovation comes from within. We all know the names of the people in the 60's as already mentioned but they came from an academic beginning whereas the generations that followed are mostly self taught. Here's a fact, some begin with formal education and drop it because it stereotypes and constructs outputs of interest.

Even Jack Bruce who was an academic musician stated that he had to unlearn everything he had learned in order to learn improvisation which is where his learning came from. (All stated in the 1968 last concert video)

If your main goal in life is to make money, get out of the arts and go make money!

Anyway, of course Jack Bruce had to let go of his earlier training to learn improvisation. His earlier training was all classical, which is a whole different ballgame from jazz training. Classical music is all about interpretation of written notes while jazz is about coming up with your own parts to give a song a different arrangement. They are two completely different disciplines only related in that they use the same notes.

 

[MVE]

Any behavioral neuro 101 text will suffice.

Yeah, I don’t think we are talking about the same thing.

The “bad habits” you might be remembering from your first day of class are likely reward triggers like sugar or nicotine.
That is clearly not what I am talking about.
Think about it this way, take out a pen and paper and copy this sentence.
Did you write in cursive? If so write it again in standard or vice versa.
There you just changed or modified a procedural memory, just like fixing a mechanical problem with your bass technique.
Was it that hard?
Of course not.

 

[ProbablyTooLoud]

Yeah, I don’t think we are talking about the same thing.

The “bad habits” you might be remembering from your first day of class are likely reward triggers like sugar or nicotine.
That is clearly not what I am talking about.
Think about it this way, take out a pen and paper and copy this sentence.
Did you write in cursive? If so write it again in standard or vice versa.
There you just changed or modified a procedural memory, just like fixing a mechanical problem with your bass technique.
Was it that hard?
Of course not.

Ha, no.

 

[MVE]

Ha, no.

Please, share some knowledge and information on this discussion if you actually have any.
Simply telling people they’re wrong, and backing it up with “read any textbook” is not really helpful and rather antagonistic and unfriendly.
I assume and hope you didn’t really intend that, but it could surely be misconstrued as such.

 

[BassChuck]

Lots of good and OK advice here.
My votes goes to: Not really learning to pay attention to pitch and rhythm. In other words, worrying about the moves and playing patterns without knowing what the notes are.

 

[IamGroot]

I'm not gonna run out and find all the papers for you dude, but there's literally decades of research on why initial habits are hard to replace. This topic is covered on day one of just about any behavioral neurobiology course.

Muscle Memory!!!!
Understanding this is a good reason to practice perfectly. And if you want to learn a tough piece perfectly, start a few weeks earlier, not the night before.

 

[IamGroot]

Yes, and they are what are known as "flukes." Your chances of becoming good on bass or any instrument increase 50-fold if you know reading and theory.


Yeah? Well Billy is very fast but he's pretty basic in his note choices, and not that there's anything wrong with it, but I'll take Dave LaRue any day of the week over Billy for rock and roll instrumental skills, and Dave is a great reader and knows theory inside and out. As for McCartney and Pino, don't mistake their lack of reading skills for not knowing theory.


Load of crap. Jack Bruce wasn't an innovator? Chris Squire? John Entwistle? Sting? Chuck Rainey? James Jamerson? Jerry Jemmott? Scott Thunes? And speaking of Zappa, nobody would ever know who Steve Vai was if he didn't know how to read. He was so good at reading that Zappa hired him to transcribe his songs on every instrument. You couldn't even get on Zappa's radar if you couldn't read. And maybe Steve could have been popular anyway, but his first major gig was with Zappa, and you see how crappy that turned out for him, I'm sure.


You gonna listen to me or your friends?

It's not the reading that kills musicians by any stretch of the imagination. Either you're creative or you're not, and reading does zero to affect that. If anything, it turns non-creatives into competent players.

Thank you.

 

[IamGroot]

Off topic, but playing on the tips of you fingers is really good for getting clean fast musical passages, like Ray Brown uses.

 

[vindibona1]

I only got through three pages of replies. But here are couple notable ones...

Not knowing how to read or knowing much chord theory is the very biggest hindrance.

OMG yes!!!! If I may use myself as an example; I'm not such a great bass player, but I make up for that by being a good musician... and... I GET GIGS BECAUSE I CAN READ AND KNOW CHORD THEORY.

It's listening, hands down.
If you don't listen well, you won't be a good bassist.

That is very good advice. In fact it is essential. But I think it is important to break down what that actually means. And "listening" is quite multi-dimensional as there are many different elements to listen to.

To name a few:
Listening to the precision of the pulse is critical so you can find the pocket. My trumpet mentor, a few years ago admonished me... "If you can't play in tune and you can't play in time, nobody is going to want to play with you". In both instances, you're either 100% in tune or 100% in time... or you're not in tune or in time. There is no "almost" in music. Close only counts in horse shoes and hand grenades. So work religiously with a metronome as most drummers percussionists do (or should). Make sure your instrument is in tune and in the case of a bass, fully intonated.

Learn to understand the difference between just playing notes and playing musically- expressively that understands phrasing and the nuances of accents and sends a message to the audience through what you are playing. Something simple played musically will have far more impact than something complex played mechanically. This comes quite naturally to some, but even if it doesn't a good sense of musicality can be learned with a little coaching.

 

[Mushroo]

Not having any talent or a good musical ear is not exactly a technique problem.

That is something you are born with (or without) like your eye colour.

Totally false! I just googled "ear training technique" and got 12,300 search results.

If you've stagnated in your ear training, it's because you're not practicing the right techniques and/or not studying with the right teacher.

 

[-Asdfgh-]

If your main goal in life is to make money, get out of the arts and go make money!

Anyway, of course Jack Bruce had to let go of his earlier training to learn improvisation. His earlier training was all classical, which is a whole different ballgame from jazz training. Classical music is all about interpretation of written notes while jazz is about coming up with your own parts to give a song a different arrangement. They are two completely different disciplines only related in that they use the same notes.

I don't see why if you have learned classical playing you have to 'forget' it to be able to improvise. I've never learned a song or lick and thought it somehow reduced my ability to improvise, but rather felt it added to my options.

 

[WrapRough]

I don't see why if you have learned classical playing you have to 'forget' it to be able to improvise. I've never learned a song or lick and thought it somehow reduced my ability to improvise, but rather felt it added to my options.

I guess it's more about eschewing the frameworks that could perhaps constrain ones thinking. But I agree, you are not forgetting anything IMO

 

[ProbablyTooLoud]

Please, share some knowledge and information on this discussion if you actually have any.
Simply telling people they’re wrong, and backing it up with “read any textbook” is not really helpful and rather antagonistic and unfriendly.
I assume and hope you didn’t really intend that, but it could surely be misconstrued as such.

No ill will intended.
All I can tell you is that this subject is not as simple as you're trying to make it, and
I'm sincere when I say the best way to understand this topic is by reading real textbooks.
That's all I got for ya.

 

[Mushroo]

Believe it or not, there actually are TalkBass members who have written music textbooks, or who teach music for a living!

TalkBass is a great source for music theory. Lots of smart people on here, and the information is as good as any textbook. In some cases better, because we can react in real time to new artists and the latest songs on the radio, that haven't made it into the textbooks yet.

 

[Leigh Semmens]

Believe it or not, there actually are TalkBass members who have written music textbooks, or who teach music for a living!

TalkBass is a great source for music theory. Lots of smart people on here, and the information is as good as any textbook. In some cases better, because we can react in real time to new artists and the latest songs on the radio, that haven't made it into the textbooks yet.

Well said! I'm a relative newbie here, but have learnt a lot just by being here. So, to me poor technique would also include, not listening to your mentors when they're trying to help you improve.