WHAT??? Rickenbacker 4003S!?

[CDweller]

Dang, I wish they had the original 4001 spacing on the neck pup. Can't please everyone, though. I had a 1999 4003, which I sold primarily because it cut off the circulation in my right forearm from the 90 degree edge of the binding (I also sold it because the E string was ridiculously less loud than the other strings). I always thought a V63 would be cool, but they are pricey. Can anybody describe the tonal differences between the two different neck pup placements- gas is building.

 

[PubliclyViewable]

It's been a while since I posted; I think there were a few impassioned people needing to profess their love/hate pissing competition relationship they have with fellow RIC/Rick owners. 'Thank You' to the members that are posting due to interest in the new S.

The neck pickup spacing change from 1/2" to 1" from the end of the fretboard between '74/'75 is due to a harmonic node that occurs in that particular location with an instrument tuned in fourths with a 33.25" scale. But yeah, the 1/2" spacing visually looks way better

 

[ggoat!!!]

The spacing change was due to neck stability problems Rickenbacker had with the 1/2" spacing; with such a large route right at the base of where the neck joins the body wings, several Rickenbackers' necks warped significantly forward making it impossible to get acceptable action even with the bridge adjusted so low that it bottomed out; 1/4" or higher string action was the result. Actually, some V63 and C64 basses still suffer from this problem. On some basses, there is literally ONLY about 1cm of wood remaining under the neck pickup area that hasn't been routed out. Some basses with this problem also show finish splitting along the body/neck joints on the back as the neck literally rips away forward from the body halves. The fix is to have a luthier actually fill this area properly to add strength with a resulting new route only big and deep enough for the actual pickup.

Note how the neck is bending forward on this bass; compare the plane of the body to that of the neck:
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The resulting action:

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The route being further from the base of the fretboard adds stability and reduces the risk of neck problems. That is why the spacing was changed.

 

[Jeff Scott]

The neck pickup spacing change from 1/2" to 1" from the end of the fretboard between '74/'75 is due to a harmonic node that occurs in that particular location with an instrument tuned in fourths with a 33.25" scale. But yeah, the 1/2" spacing visually looks way better

I play open harmonics fairly often and the 1/2" location lets them sing; the 1" position, right under the 24th fret location node, chokes them off.

 

[stacker]

And, don't forget the Guitar Center 4001S failed fiasco with nearly EVERY one of them sporting HORRIBLY crooked off-center pickups, bridges, and pickguards. These inexcusable quality issues were so horrendous that John Hall himself literally quit the RickResource forum when people started questioning how such an expen$ive (and BEAUTIFULLY selected curly maple bodied) instrument could actually be built so haphazardly with no attention to detail. Of course, the customers were blamed, as were the "off angle pictures." He claimed he was being "disrespected," took his ball and went home (to the official Rickenbacker forum, which has been DEAD for seemingly ever due to his actions).

Speaking of being disrespected, it's actually the ever-so-surely decreasing Rick fanbase which has been "disrespected" by offering such ridiculous "quality" for so much money and then complaining that it's the customer's fault for being soooo picky as to expect the pickups to actually line up with the neck. There are only SO many die-hard Rick fans out there (as an owner of 27 of them, I still qualify), but as evidenced by the dearth of activity on ALL the Rick forums, offending all of us who AREN'T fanboys seems to finally be hitting Rick on the bottom line...hence the return of the S model, and the ever increasing amount of special models being sent to Japan that WE can't get here...since we apparently aren't worthy of them according to Mr. Hall. The thing is, however, is that I'm sure the Japanese have the SAME quality concerns with Rickenbacker that we have here but since Mr. Hall doesn't read the Japanese Rick forums he is blissfully unaware and thus happy to give them all the fancy things that we here in the USA have craved for years (i.e., checkerboard binding). As a way of "giving it to those ungrateful disrespecting b*stards," I'm sure Mr. Hall takes utmost comfort in knowing how most of us long-term Rick fans feel about being denied the options we've asked for for DECADES. Such denial is most probably done on purpose...just to p*ss us off. Dangle that carrot.

But, I digress...the pics speak for themselves. Check that alignment...look at that patchwork on the end of the fretboard...look at the gaps visible under the pickguard...all can be yours for almost $4000.

Again...yawn

[/QUOTE

Thank you for resurrecting this! I remember the brou-ha-ha that erupted on RRF over all this. A real popcorn moment, that!

I also remember that RIC made an RM1999 for Japanese export only. I sometimes wonder what's in that Hall fella's little head. I personally find him, having seen him in action on fora and having heard of and been on the end of his wrath, very much like a petulant child and I won't touch RIC again whilst that man is at the helm of what appears to be an erratically sailed ship!

 

[stacker]

They aren't "hate posts." They are merely unclouded observations, assessments, and reporting of actual fact regarding their current quality. The pictures speak for themselves, and their actions regarding their current quality level (and/or customer service) are not arguable.

That doesn't change the fact that I love the basses...just not the quality control and customer service. I guess that's the difference between being a Rickenbacker fan and a Rickenbacker fanboy.

Well said, mate!

 

[dje31]

Thanks for the insight and input. Hadn't heard of the neck pickup location issue before.

If I were to get a 4003S, I'd likely put in a toaster and horseshoe. With that 1/2" shift in mind, is there a problem with using the toaster in that position? For that matter, are the current toaster and horseshoe faithful to the originals in sound, output, character, etc.?

 

[ggoat!!!]

No, there are no issues using the toaster in that position...and, no, the current toasters and horseshoe are in no way faithful to the originals...they just look similar.

 

[Paul Boyer]

I sometimes wonder what's in that Hall fella's little head.

Wait . . . you're saying that JH shouldn't take large orders for a custom model from one of his best customers? Dude! If you want custom color, or checker binding, or certain pickups, get a bunch of people together who will put money down with a U.S. Rick dealer, and JH's little head will answer to your needs. In other words, put money where your mouth/computer is and you'll get what you want. And you won't even need to deal personally with JH.

 

[ggoat!!!]

Dude! If you want custom color, or checker binding, or certain pickups, get a bunch of people together who will put money down with a U.S. Rick dealer, JH's little head will answer to your needs. .

Either that or he will verbally berate you and then claim he was just being sarcastic toward your request and gobs of money offered.

 

[stacker]

Wait . . . you're saying that JH shouldn't take large orders for a custom model from one of his best customers? Dude! If you want custom color, or checker binding, or certain pickups, get a bunch of people together who will put money down with a U.S. Rick dealer, and JH's little head will answer to your needs. In other words, put money where your mouth/computer is and you'll get what you want. And you won't even need to deal personally with JH.

I'm saying nothing of the kind; he's entitled to sell wherever he wants! I was merely puzzled by the fact that that run of RM1999s went to Japan only. Had they been issued worldwide, the company would have made a fortune, just like they did with the 75th Anni DCMS!

Paul, it will be a lonnngg time before I deal with RIC again, as much as I still love the 4000 series.

 

[stacker]

Either that or he will verbally berate you and then claim he was just being sarcastic toward your request and gobs of money offered.

I have experienced that, too, lol!!!

 

[primussucks9126]

Dude! If you want custom color, or checker binding, or certain pickups, get a bunch of people together who will put money down with a U.S. Rick dealer, and JH's little head will answer to your needs. In other words, put money where your mouth/computer is and you'll get what you want. And you won't even need to deal personally with JH.

If that's really the case, I'd be willing to be part of an Azureglo 4003s group buy. Anyone else interested? Any idea what the minimum number would have to be?

 

[Root 5]

As the current owner of 28 Ricks, I believe I'm familiar with the variations of Rickenbacker's Fireglo finish through the years.

And, on that note, the current SpaghettioGlo does NOT resemble in any way, shape, or form, any other era of Fireglo finishes. They were warm; they weren't simply Mapleglo with a tomato soupy border. Modern computer displays are accurate enough. SpaghettioGlo does NOT look like this:

Even the long-produced "PinkGlo" era of Fireglo looks better than SpaghettioGlo.

Pink-Glo is correct! I have a 1998 'Fire-Glo' that actually is pink.

 

[Root 5]

making it impossible to get acceptable action even with the bridge adjusted so low that it bottomed out

I have had to lower the bridge as low as it will go and the action IMO is still too high. Another common thing with Rics is they cut the nut waaay too high. It's an easy fix, but they should do it right at Rickenbacker.

Rics generally don't play great out of the gate - they need a set up.

 

[Fishheadjoe]

I like them, I've had three, but currently own none!
First bass I bought was a RIC 4003 in the early 80's. Split pickguard Ruby Red. I put huge hours on that bass. At some point, it developed a rattle in the neck. I took it to many a "luthier" at the time and was told I had a broken truss rod. Now, remember in the 80's there was no internet and there were even fewer RIC knowledgeable people. I thought it best that I get rid of it.
Second RIC 4003 I bought during MF's RIC blow out a few years ago. This one was Fireglow. Right out of the RIC box after letting it sit for a day, I noticed that there were black paint spots near the output jack, that had been covered with clear coat! Also, none of the tone controls worked! At the time, I was told by folks here that I should just take it in and have the circuit looked at and repaired, on my dime! LOL Not happening and back she went.
Third RIC to replace the above would not set up. Numerous attempts by me and professional luthiers all came to the same conclusion, the neck blank was not cut correctly and there was no way to get the bass to setup, without pulling the finger board, re-planning the neck re-installing the finger board. I sold that bass on CL.
SO, would I like to have a RIC, yah, a functional one for sure, but I have spent way too much money with nothing to show for it. I contemplated getting a 4004, but after my experience with the 4003 models, I have decided that they are just not for me. I won't get into my conversation with RIC "customer service".
Fair warning for any who do want a RIC, your experience may vary!
Fishheadjoe

 

[Paul Boyer]

I was merely puzzled by the fact that that run of RM1999s went to Japan only. Had they been issued worldwide, the company would have made a fortune, just like they did with the 75th Anni DCMS!

The run of "RM1999" was to fulfill a special limited-run order from Shinseido. They were basically built the same as the concurrent 4001C64 but with the headstock turned the "right way around." If RIC would have made a fortune adding (or returning) it to the line, they would have done it. By that time, I feel, sales for the "vintage" models had tailed off. It also may have been close to the time where they would run out of inventory of reissue Toaster and Horseshoe pickups and decided not to reorder to equip models that were drifting in sales. Just a theory.

By discontinuing a "vintage" or "dot-neck" or "unbound" model, RIC can accumulate interest/demand/orders for it when it is reintroduced. Not everyone who likes/wants a basic trim model wants/needs the vintage-grade pickups or nickle-plated reverse tuners, etc. Look at the history for a bit. When the first "vintage" model came out (the B series 4001SB/4003SB) it ran concurrently with the 4003S. The SB morphed into the more "vintage accurate" V63 in 1984, and demand for the down-trimmed model was split between the S and V63 (not counting the specials or 5 or 8 stringers here). Eventually, sales of the S model dropped, so the V63 carried on. The V63 morphed into the C64 which was ended in 2011 as sales dropped off. Once demand built up again, RIC brought back the S model. The S model is cheaper to produce since it uses the standard High-gain pickups and no special parts.

I doubt that RIC made a "fortune" on the 75th anniversary models. Indeed, they created instant demand with the special color and badging, but did you know that the price for the dealers was about the same as the standard models? The inflated prices you saw were dealers taking advantage of the instant rabid demand. Having a good relationship with my local dealer, I got my 4003 75th Anniversary bass for the same price as an everyday Fireglo. A lot of the very high prices for the 75th Ann. models were from flips. Indeed, I made a few hundred selling mine after holding it for a few years.

 

[kcole4001]

A quick question, Paul if you would:

Any idea how many of the B series basses were sold?
I never have seen one outside of the ads.

 

[Paul Boyer]

No idea. By some accounts, RIC's "B series" was the first attempt by a major(?) manufacturer at replicating older versions of their instruments. Of course, the "vintage features" of the B series were laughable, enough to make John Hall s***can it and develop the more "vintage accurate" V series.

The problem identifying a bona fide "B" bass is that the only difference between it and a plain ol' 4001S or 4003S (because production of the B series spanned the changeover) was the Toaster pickup. And anyone with an extra hun and soldering gun could make that change in half an hour. So you can never tell when you see a B series bass unless you are dealing with the original owner who bought it as such. It took me months to find such a person, and his photos of his 4003SB grace the book. I've not seen another.

 

[stacker]

The run of "RM1999" was to fulfill a special limited-run order from Shinseido. They were basically built the same as the concurrent 4001C64 but with the headstock turned the "right way around.".

Fair enough, I didn't know that run was a SO. However, a lot of people did not like the flipped headstock on the C64/S (neither did I) and faced with the V series being rarer than hens' teeth on the 2nd-hand market, I can tell you right now that RIC would have made quite a few bob by releasing that RM/4001S worldwide. Again, I don't get that business model. But, as you have inferred, if RIC withholds runs of models to create a demand......why doesn't it just do it??

Anyway, all this is moot point for me.