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What should/can I do?

J

JoeyZ

May 9, 2005
433
2
#1
Thought the 410 was going to be enough. It's certainly loud enough, but I think I want something a little bigger...
I have a chance to grab another 410 but I don't know the ohm load and am already running my Backline 600 into a 4 ohm cab...

I mean, Where can you go when you have a 4 ohm 410 and you want to upgrade? It's tough to come across 2 ohm heads these days and I'm happy with the amp head....So?

:help:
 
#3
Now you know why you should have bought an 8 ohm 4x10 originally. 4 ohm cabs outsell 8 ohm by at least 4:1, "so I can get all the watts out of my amp", but unless you are absolutely positive you'll never need more output than the one cab will give it's a theory that will eventually come back and bite you in the butt. Your only options are to either go to a pair of 8 ohm cabs, get an amp that will comfortably run at 2 ohms, or add a slaved power amp to power the second cab.
 
#5
billfitzmaurice said:
Now you know why you should have bought an 8 ohm 4x10 originally. 4 ohm cabs outsell 8 ohm by at least 4:1, "so I can get all the watts out of my amp", but unless you are absolutely positive you'll never need more output than the one cab will give it's a theory that will eventually come back and bite you in the butt. Your only options are to either go to a pair of 8 ohm cabs, get an amp that will comfortably run at 2 ohms, or add a slaved power amp to power the second cab.
Click to expand...

I ran into this argument with a builder here not too long ago. Everyone and their mom kept sellin' 4ohm cabs and I said 8 ohms. Several other prominent builder/manufacturers acted like I was a jerk for suggesting that you get more bang for your amps full wattage rating with running 2 cabs over one 4 ohm cab. It was also suggested that sooooo many amps are 2ohms that it was hardly an issue anymore.

Of course, this is why I buy 8ohm cabs to start with.
 
#8
billfitzmaurice said:
The next chapter of this saga will be when buyers insist on being offered 2 ohm cabs 'so I can get all the watts out of my 2 ohm amp'. :scowl:
Click to expand...

And you're right...that's exactly what will be happening. " I have a 1200w amp rated down to 2ohms...what 1x10 2ohm cab can I get for my micro rig? It needs to be light, loud and low."

The modularity of 8ohm cabs for me well outsells 'full wattage' especially since the extra power gain you get from going from 8 to 4 ohms isn't really that much when translated into volume.

The reality is that when I'm playing a gig that only requires one cab and lesser volume, then the 8ohm/reduced wattage output is enough. If I need the full wattage? Then I want more speakers too. Of course, this fights the intrinsic laziness of many players. It also allows me to use three different cab configurations depending upon the gig and the needs (my 115, my 2x12 or both?).
 
#10
OTOH, Roger from Genz Benz said their 212's that run at 4 ohms grossly outsell their 8 ohm 212's. So you have to service your clientele, but when you clientele does things the bad way, it's really hard to straighten them out without putting them off. So that's why TB is good...nobody on here cares if they put people off while straightening them out, and sometimes that's exactly what they need ;)

The chase for more wattage in smaller packages is indeed a dumb one, one I've seen through for years. Nope, no 4 ohm 410's or 115's for me ever. You want full wattage? Get cabs that can take it, not cabs that can barely take half of your full wattage.
 
#13
It is, as always, about gauging your need present and possible, and making good decisions based on knowing what's what, what's out there, etc. Nothing wrong with buying 4 ohm enclosures if they fit what you have or plan to have for an amp, and put out sufficient levels in the context of what you need to hear from them separately or in conjunction with another enclosure.

That said, a lot of people get swept away in the "must wring every watt out" hysteria while buying enclosures that really can't handle the wattage one would think, since the excursion limits are usually only 1/3 to 1/2 of what the continuous thermal ratings are.

Inexperienced buyers should probably stick to 8-ohm loads though, because they seem to have trouble sussing all this stuff out.
 
#14
RickenBoogie said:
It never ends, but I have a question for the OP. Why do you feel you need another cab? Is the BL600/410 not loud enough? Just curious, 'cause you said, "it's certainly loud enough". So, why then?
Click to expand...

Without answering for the OP, I tend to use two cabs instead of one even when one cab is enough volume wise. For me wattage and cabinets are less for volume and more for tone. For the tone profile I want, I want to keep things clean and to support the low end I want along with tight mids. I've found the best way to do this is having more speaker area and not taxing my amp. As the owner of a 1212 which is rated at 1000w and plenty loud, I really found myself wanting another cab to fill out the tonal profile.
 
#16
Ok, I understand that, and as a bit of a tone affecinado myself, I normally play through either a 2x12, or a 2x15, and never push the amp on top of either cab. Love my tone, smooth, warm, and still punchy in the lower mids. For whatever reason, I'm thinking that may not be the OP's goal here. I could certainly be wrong. But, I am curious nonetheless. My guess, is the huge stack "look", not that there's anything wrong with that, either.
 
#17
JimmyM said:
OTOH, Roger from Genz Benz said their 212's that run at 4 ohms grossly outsell their 8 ohm 212's. So you have to service your clientele, but when you clientele does things the bad way, it's really hard to straighten them out without putting them off. So that's why TB is good...nobody on here cares if they put people off while straightening them out, and sometimes that's exactly what they need ;)

The chase for more wattage in smaller packages is indeed a dumb one, one I've seen through for years. Nope, no 4 ohm 410's or 115's for me ever. You want full wattage? Get cabs that can take it, not cabs that can barely take half of your full wattage.
Click to expand...


If you look at our amp platform (and that of many other companies too), a 4 ohm 212 matches up nicely with say the ShuttleMax 12.0 (one per output channel, 600 watts per box), or the GBE-1200 (2 ohm mode, 2 boxes at 4 ohms = 2 ohms, 600 watts per box) or with the Shuttle 6.0, one box on the amp and with the linking function that allows a second Shuttle 6.0 (or ShuttleMax 6.0) to drive another box.

This is pretty common (power level and scalingwise) across other quality manufacturers as well.
 
#18
Truth be told, im not sure...I mean, I used to have a pretty huge cab and i do admit that i kind of miss having a giant box behind me at shows.
More than that though, it seems as though i'm pushing the ampeg pretty hard and wanted to get something to take some of the heat off of it..

If I were to run a 4ohm cab and an 8ohm cab from the BL600 would that completely destroy it? The reason I ask is that it says no where on this cab what the ohm load is so...worse comes to worse the ohm loads are mismatched.
 
#19
Your GK is rated for 300w @ 4ohms. I wouldn't suggest using a 2.67 ohms. I would also suggest that if you're using a 'big rig' that you may wish to use a head with a bit more power to it, which would give you more headroom no matter what your cab setup.


*By 'wouldn't suggest' I mean yes, you could possibly fry it.
 
#20
agedhorse said:
If you look at our amp platform (and that of many other companies too), a 4 ohm 212 matches up nicely with say the ShuttleMax 12.0 (one per output channel, 600 watts per box), or the GBE-1200 (2 ohm mode, 2 boxes at 4 ohms = 2 ohms, 600 watts per box) or with the Shuttle 6.0, one box on the amp and with the linking function that allows a second Shuttle 6.0 (or ShuttleMax 6.0) to drive another box.

This is pretty common (power level and scalingwise) across other quality manufacturers as well.
Click to expand...
I guess what I said could have been interpreted as a slight against your cabs, and I certainly didn't mean it that way. But regardless of the actual performance of your cabs, if I've got 600w of power available, I'm going to throw at least a 412 at it, not because I don't think a good 212 isn't capable of handling it, but because having that much wattage into a 212 cab wouldn't be making the best use out of it IMHO. I could take 350w and power that 212 at 8 ohms nearly as effectively as 600w at 4 would. But take that same 350w and add a second 212 and you'll get nearly double the output.

Of course, I don't have to tell you any of that. But it just makes no sense to me to have a 600w head powering a 212, no matter how efficient it is. It's still not a big rig, and it's still going to be limited in how loud it will get. And of course, once you get past the 600w clean a Shuttle Max 12.0 will give you on one side, you still got plenty of peak power left to shred a 212. Witness all the "I just blew my small cab" threads we see on here. For that reason alone, I think it's pointless past a certain point to chase the "I want giant wattage and a small cab" tail.
 

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