What should I say?

[Kipp Harrington]

I just started practicing with a group of guys that are really cool. However, the guitar player does not have a good approach to his sound. He is playing through a Line 6 combo amp and he likes using a lot of (in my opinion) unnecessary effects... like reverb, delay, chorus, etc. Sometimes he has all of these on at once. It just scrambles his signal too much and does not sound good for classic rock tunes (which we do). Also, I don't think he understands what specific songs need and DON'T need, as far as effects are concerned. In fact, most of the songs we do really don't need any effects. I can see hitting the overdrive or boost for a solo... even adding a "sprinkle" of a quick, milli-sec of delay. I just think it sounds very amateurish. I played guitar in bands for years and understood what was (and wasn't) needed for the song to sound its best. Just trying to think of a way to break it to him without pissing him off.

 

[Gorn]

“Can we talk about the effects you're using?“

 

[Mushroo]

(Assuming you are the bandleader) threatening to dock his pay should get your point across, if all other forms of gentle negotiations fail.

If you're not the bandleader and/or he's not getting paid, then I say, let him do what makes him happy. I know I personally look forward to unpaid-hobby band nights as a chance to try out new basses/amps/pedals and make lots of noise in a casual, criticism-free environment.

 

[Kipp Harrington]

I just started practicing with a group of guys that are really cool. However, the guitar player does not have a good approach to his sound. He is playing through a Line 6 combo amp and he likes using a lot of (in my opinion) unnecessary effects... like reverb, delay, chorus, etc. Sometimes he has all of these on at once. It just scrambles his signal too much and does not sound good for classic rock tunes (which we do). Also, I don't think he understands what specific songs need and DON'T need, as far as effects are concerned. In fact, most of the songs we do really don't need any effects. I can see hitting the overdrive or boost for a solo... even adding a "sprinkle" of a quick, milli-sec of delay. I just think it sounds very amateurish. I played guitar in bands for years and understood what was (and wasn't) needed for the song to sound its best. Just trying to think of a way to break it to him without pissing him off.

Ok... then he says, "what about them"? I guess I could say, "I think you would probably get better projection and more defined notes/chords if you limited them a bit". It's a touchy situation. He seems like a 54 year old guy that plays guitar like a kid who just got a cool amp with a multitude of effects and thinks it sounds "cool" to use them as much as possible. I know, I was that kid... 35 years ago!

 

[Kipp Harrington]

(Assuming you are the bandleader) threatening to dock his pay should get your point across, if all other forms of gentle negotiations fail.

If you're not the bandleader and/or he's not getting paid, then I say, let him do what makes him happy. I know I personally look forward to unpaid-hobby band nights as a chance to try out new basses/amps/pedals and make lots of noise in a casual, criticism-free environment.

We're not playing out yet. Will probably be a while. They only want to practice once every 2 weeks. There really isn't a definitive BL from what I gather. These guys are all pretty laid back, which is great. Maybe too laid back... or at least the guitar player. It's almost to the point of ignorance on his behalf. I mean, if you were in the room listening to us, I'm pretty sure you would see where I'm coming from.

 

[Mushroo]

One thought is to rent a studio for the day under the guise of "making a demo" and get some input on your mix from a professional engineer.

It sounds like there is a leadership void. Tough decision for you as the new guy whether you are comfortable stepping into that role. Once you start making decisions for the group, where does it end? If you assume a leadership role, will the other guys expect you to start booking the gigs, managing the social media, scheduling rehearsals, etc.?

 

[TrevorR]

“Can we talk about the effects you're using?“

But be prepared for the conversation to go...

“Yeah, they sound great, don’t they!”
“...errrm, no they are a bit overdone and I think they kinda ruin the song.”
“Well, I like them and I think they sound brilliant.”

And at that point there’s really nowhere good for the conversation to go other than you saying, “OK, cool.”

 

[Kipp Harrington]

But be prepared for the conversation to go...

“Yeah, they sound great, don’t they!”
“...errrm, no they are a bit overdone and I think they kinda ruin the song.”
“Well, I like them and I think they sound brilliant.”

And at that point there’s really nowhere good for the conversation to go other than you saying, “OK, cool.”

LOL!!! That was a brilliant deduction on what will probably transpire! Even if he doesn't say that, he will probably be thinking it, for sure.

 

[Gorn]

But be prepared for the conversation to go...

“Yeah, they sound great, don’t they!”
“...errrm, no they are a bit overdone and I think they kinda ruin the song.”
“Well, I like them and I think they sound brilliant.”

And at that point there’s really nowhere good for the conversation to go other than you saying, “OK, cool.”

The conversation is gonna go where the conversation is gonna go, but I generally go for the simple approach to communication. You gotta start somewhere.

 

[Kipp Harrington]

But be prepared for the conversation to go...

“Yeah, they sound great, don’t they!”
“...errrm, no they are a bit overdone and I think they kinda ruin the song.”
“Well, I like them and I think they sound brilliant.”

And at that point there’s really nowhere good for the conversation to go other than you saying, “OK, cool.”

Or pack up my s*** and say, "I'm outta here"! Lol.

 

[hrodbert696]

Some might call it passive-aggressive, but indirection could be the most effective way to go. For instance, if you guys listen to a track (or come in having learned a new song by listening to one), comment on how much you like the great clean tone the guitarist on the track has, and how much you've learned over the years that less is more. The guy might disagree or push back immediately, but he might agree that it sounds good. Then he might either start playing it clean on his own, or if he starts in with the effects, you could kindly say, "Hey Joe, remember how much we liked that clean tone on the recording? I wonder if our parts might mix better if you recreate that."

 

[Bassbeater]

Record the room and then talk to him about the recordings.

 

[Stumbo]

One thought is to rent a studio for the day under the guise of "making a demo" and get some input on your mix from a professional engineer.

It sounds like there is a leadership void. Tough decision for you as the new guy whether you are comfortable stepping into that role. Once you start making decisions for the group, where does it end? If you assume a leadership role, will the other guys expect you to start booking the gigs, managing the social media, scheduling rehearsals, etc.?

If the goal is to gig and it's agreed upon, then record your rehearsals and listen to them as a group.

If you're direct and say, "based on our recordings, our goal to gig and my experience as a guitar and bass player, this is what I suggest we need to do...".

If you get push back and nothing changes, then you have to decide if you're going to stay or not because it seems that they are interested in socializing more than working towards the goal of getting gig ready.

Or, if they really don't understand what a professional band sounds like, then you'll never be on the same page and they will resent you for pointing out their flaws.

Good luck.

 

[mellowinman]

Honestly, I'm to the point in my life where I would say, "hey your overuse of effects is amateurish and embarrassing, and masks the level of skill that made me want to play with you in the first place. Either knock it off, or we are no longer in the same project. And I actually WANT to be in a project with you."

Try it. It separates the wheat from the chaff.

 

[FunkHead]

Just don’t call him out in front of everyone else in the band. A quick respectful one on one should be a good first try.

 

[DirtDog]

Record the room and then talk to him about the recordings.

This

 

[lz4005]

I'd approach it by talking about the difference between what sounds good solo and what sounds good in a mix.

 

[Kipp Harrington]

Some might call it passive-aggressive, but indirection could be the most effective way to go. For instance, if you guys listen to a track (or come in having learned a new song by listening to one), comment on how much you like the great clean tone the guitarist on the track has, and how much you've learned over the years that less is more. The guy might disagree or push back immediately, but he might agree that it sounds good. Then he might either start playing it clean on his own, or if he starts in with the effects, you could kindly say, "Hey Joe, remember how much we liked that clean tone on the recording? I wonder if our parts might mix better if you recreate that."

That’s great advice... only problem is that the guys name isn’t Joe! Should I call him Joe? I’m kidding, of course. I’ve received some real good approaches. I guess I’ll choose one when the evening arrives that I just can take it anymore. Recording and listening is a good idea too.

 

[FugaziBomb]

I recently let go of a guitarist in my originals band because of effects. I had been working with him for years before this project and it had been a constant issue with different BLs. I even told him once or twice that I agreed with the other BLs about his effects making it hard to hear what he was playing as well as really muddling up the mix, but he would just keep right along; phaser ON, delay ON. Fast forward a few years and now I'm co-piloting my own project with a buddy and we end upbringing him in. Sure enough, that delay is always on and always LOUD. We talked to him about it a few times, and he would seem receptive - then next practice, he would revert right back to it. Finally, we had to cut him.

I would talk to the guy, for sure. Let him know that the effects he's using aren't doing him any favors. Maybe he'll listen, maybe he won't - our former guitarist sure didn't.

 

[Lobster11]

In the abstract, this is just a difference between your tastes and his, and I wouldn't presume to take a side without hearing it. So I think it all depends on what the band's goals/plans are. If you're going to be a cover band, and trying to make the songs sound at least similar to the originals, then "too many effects" won't sound right for many/most songs; you should all be able to agree about what sounds best relative to the original. But if you're an originals band, or maybe a "jam-band," there isn't a standard to judge against and you'll just have to work it out as a band.