• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Double Bass What Song is Missy Raines Playing?

Status
Not open for further replies.
#21
Good comeback!
I'm okay with my playing. I'm a conservatory trained jazz player who happens to play in a band that could be loosely described as bluegrass. I've endured criticism from (and been corrected by) the best and most ruthless cats in the biz. I don't have any need to prove myself to you. I was just making a constructive suggestion that I thought might improve your own sour soul. You don't have to take it though. I didn't think you would.

Edit: with all due respect, of course.
 
#24
Just Curious . . . if any of you Critics had ever so much as even heard of Missy Raines prior to this thread?

If so, had any of you ever heard and/or seen her play in any venue and/or media other than the link in question? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWPkT...eature=related

If not, do all y'all think that singular link is a fair enough representation from which to offer such a harsh, unsolicited & personal critique of Missy Raines as well as taking cheap shots at Bluegrass music in general?

BTW - I, for one, would be interested to know how your bona fides in your genre match-up with hers?

The OP only asked for help in naming the song . . .

At the end of this Missy Raines clip on YouTube, she plays a song that I'd like to hear in full.

I'd appreciate it if you could tell me the name of the song.
Click to expand...

Yeah, yeah - I know, I know . . . it's "your forum" & your opinion & your right to express it is guaranteed by the Constitution . . . ya-da, ya-da, ya-da . . . however, but . . . just W T F asked you in the first place - Huh? :confused: :mad:
 
#25
I think a couple things need asked here:

the first one is supposed to be "Sweet Georgia Brown" I guess.

Paul, what makes this so unrecognizable to you that you have to put in the 'I guess'?

Was it the Duke that said there are only two kinds of music? "Good music, and the other kind" There is only two kinds of playing, good playing...and the other kind. The manner in which the intro of that video is played is the "other kind". IMHO.

Mike, what makes this 'the other kind'? Also I thought it was Louis Armstrong who was quoted as saying something along those lines.

Overall I am thinking that at least 90% of our introduction to a musical piece is audio, not video.

What is she doing so wrong musically that goes against theory, harmony or feel? The three things most people (whether they know it or not) pick up on immediately.

I want to know this last one because I am always looking to improve my playing, and if there is something I am not hearing wrong theoreticly or harmoniclly, I would like to know what it is so I don't (as dad used to say) figure out someone else's f*** up. Yes, he was a jazz bassist in the fifties and sixties.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dudaronamous
#27
Never thought this thread would go this far. Bluegrassers, listen up, most jazz guys are going to think you suck as are most classical players. It's just a fact. Compared to what a jazz player is going to face on the stand any given night bluegrass looks pretty primitive and simple. As bluegrass players know, the job of playing the music at a high level is a lot harder than it looks. Playing stellar time, with just the right movement and support backing music with fairly simple harmonic structure has it's own set of challenges. We know it even if a jazzer might not but then again, who cares really? Jazz is jazz is classical is classical is rock is rock is irish is irish is oldtime is bluegrass is who the hell cares... Paul is a great jazz player. To a great jazz player Missy's little video is going to seem a little presumptuous from a playing and teaching standpoint. I think her sound is really pretty good, coming out of a Ray Brown bag, but her simplicity and fisting grip and slithering intonation come off as less than impressive. I guess she's not that self-conscious and trusts that her audience will get it. She is a very good player at what she does. I saw a video of her and Alison Kraus when they were young and the bass playing knocked me out. It had real balls and was totally driving the tune in a great way. On another site we just went around the block on a vid of Ron Carter who was also a little disappointing in the intonation dept. But, in the end, he's frickin Ron Carter. The great news is, they're human, can't do everything perfect all the time yet manage to create beautiful music that inspires. It's actually ok if Paul ribs us about Missy, it's funny even! Call it checks and balances. The forum is better for having a Paul to snicker from the curtain. Rigorous critique is good for all of us. I love the story of Mingus walking out of the Money Jungle session saying that Max Roach "can't play the mother-f+++in' drums". Incidentally, I've been getting lots of calls to play bluegrass lately and therefore I've been listening to a lot of the music seeing what I can learn. I can't express how hard it can be to play the PERFECT line for some of this stuff. There are players out there that just nail it, Dennis Crouch comes to mind. Like so much music, the basic job is not that difficult once youre a player but nailing those little nuances, specific to the music and the history of the music, yet modern and fresh is a very difficult thing to master. I don't listen to much of Missy, I get that she's trying to stretch and be a better player but I have a feeling that some of her best playing could be found in those little nuances that just take an ok tune and make it stellar. Hey, some players are really rhythm section players (like Ron Carter or, in this case, Missy Raines). There are plenty of situations where I'd rather see Ron or Missy than Edgar when I walk into a gig. Or Paul for that matter, heh heh.
 
#28
Charlie Haden's technique, as I said earlier in the thread, is hard to watch but he somehow is able to play without a problem in terms of good intonation, a great sound, and a wonderful feel. He doesn't profess to be a bass teacher, although he does jazz clinics. Missy is professing to be bass teacher and with that bizarre left hand technique, I wish her students the best of luck.
That's what I find uncomfortable about this.
 
#29
Yeah, man, I get it, and you're totally right. I looked at a few of her other videos and it's there again....very flawed technique that is obviously giving her trouble executing what she is trying to execute. In another video I see that her basic outline is to teach beginners, to bring people into the world of bass playing which I think, given her general vibe, she is probably very good at. She's inclusive and caring and super-low key. I have no doubt she would readily admit to her own shortcomings and probably works on them everyday like the rest of us. Like I said, what she does well, she does VERY well.
And what you do Paul, kick a bee hive and run like a banshee, you do VERY well. Buzzzzzzzzzz (heh heh)
 
#30
Paul Warburton said:
Lawrence Welk gotta lotta work too.
Click to expand...

Precisely....and so did Paul Chambers.

For such a legendary, well-regarded jazz bass player even some of the greats dig his playing in spite of his faults.

case in point:
An interview with Wynton Marsalis. Scroll to the bottom, its long, but I didn't want to take the quote out of context.

WM: A lot of what Miles is playing is like Louis Armstrong. That's good organization. H'mm: again, piano players are always playing like the snare drum, though.

Good interplay between him and Philly. Him and Philly Joe Jones – they loved each other. Like they had a real close relationship. They would go on the road together and just play gigs, pick up other cats in the band. I had the chance to hang with Philly Joe Jones and rap with him a lot about that.

The thing is they had a similar type of intelligence. Philly Joe Jones: Very smart. Very, very smart. Miles also. Very smart. Philly had a lot of range of interests too, reading and a lot of stuff. That type of intelligence comes out in their playing.

And the trumpet and the drum are always connected. You know, the first depiction of a trumpet is on a kind of a vase. It’s on a vase, an Egyptian vase, with drummers. We’re always with drummers. In a Haydn Symphony, the trumpet and drums play together.

That solo is such a good organization of ideas. Miles, by that time, had really worked on how he organized the material in his solos so he could go from one point to another. Umm. Good. You know.

What I also like about it that it sounds like "local" music too. You know what I’m talking about? It sounds like people in a room playing. Cats out of tune a little bit. But it's got a local sound. You can hear the camaraderie. Paul Chambers all out of tune but playing all kinds of bad sh!%t. You know what I mean?EI: Chambers sounds incredible. He’s so young them.

WM: Nice lope on his swing. You can feel the ebb and flow.


I don't hear anyone calling PC "awful" or suggesting he belongs on Expert Village. I bet PC was striving for better intonation in his growth as a player. Like anyone else he probably had good days and bad days. And players like Miles were not only accepting of that, but they were digging what he did have to offer. I also bet no one was asking "Is this the best jazz has to offer? Is this the standard?"
Real music is made by fallable human beings whose gifts and imperfections are part of what makes the music beautiful and accessible. I feel sorry for people who get so caught up in "perfection" that they don't get to appreciate all that music has to offer.
Actually, PW, I am surprised. One of my favorite quotes from you comes from 3 of my favorite books: Musicophilia, The Music Lesson, and Effortless Mastery. Your comments in this thread espouse an attitude that is the antithesis of the book Effortless Mastery. I hope you don't convey that to your students.

Quick edit: While I was crafting my post Jason and Paul posted their latest offerings. @Jason: Very insightful stuff. Right on!
 
#31
For the record....
I agree, or maybe more accurately, I *used* to feel the same way, strongly -- that someone with very bad technique should not teach, especially in an online video format where the bad habits could potentially spread far and wide. I know my technique is a lot less than perfect, and I would probably avoid any situation where I'm teaching to a wide audience. But, as Jason said, Missy, despite her technical challenges, is VERY good at her thing, and THAT's what she's teaching here. Not the fundamentals of Simandl. I once tore apart a video (posted on another site) by Travis Book of the Infamous Stringdusters for the same reasons, and later recanted. It did nobody any good.

Anyway, I guess my point is, I do see both sides of the argument, and have shifted over the years from one to the other. In the end, I'm happy to see that the thread has evolved somewhat away from petty personal attacks into carefully explained points of view. This I can accept gladly. Thanks all for the follow ups.
 
#32
If we ok now and y'all ain't gonna send out yer BOYZ :ninja: on me, I still stand by my remark that her ability to teach the double bass is questionable and, as at least some of you agree, is highly suspect in her left hand technique. There's a whole bunch of wasted motion in her clips and yes her thumb on the E string isn't freeing up her fingers to do their job on all the strings, as Marcus joked about earlier. I'm not a big proponent of whining about possible injuries due to playing the DB, but if she teaches this technique it doesn't bode well for students.
IMO, the toughest part about teaching isn't the technique as much as the feel. We, in jazz bass teaching have always struggled to help a student get a good swing feel and in the end we come to realize that it can't be taught and I would hope Missy would agree, so that leaves her back in the space of being a double bass teacher and , IMO, she should stay away from labeling herself a bass teacher.

EDIT: What Paul Chambers' issues might have been doesn't really line up with all this for the simple reason to my knowledge, he never espoused to be a DB teacher in a public arena.
RE-EDIT: I still think she should have her luthier strip off that backwards 16th note offa the toppa' her bass. Credentials, ya know? :help:
 
#33
Fifteen years ago I suffered a severe compression facture of my left wrist. Two operations ansd twelve weeks in a cast left me with four screws and a plate, part of my hip bone for a shim and about 50% loss of my "angle of motion". I quit playing. Could not stay away and decided to try again. I had to retrain my self to a new technique in order to play. Is it limiting? You betcha! And, I am sure it would be amusing for some of you to watch; but I am still playing. In motorcycle riding it is not the "destination" that is important; it is the "journey". It is not the "being there"; it is the "getting there". Perhaps this is true of everything in life; including music.
 
#34
Yes my Bertrand Russell quoting battered friend, but you aren't putting out a DVD on bass technique are you? We've tread this path umpteenth times, technique vs getting there, etc etc. I'm glad you're playing and I hope your new technique doesn't cause you other injury later on. I love that Paul wandered into a hillbilly camp and got everyone riled up. I think Missy can teach, to a point, but she should clean up her left hand enough to at least show kids how it's done correctly. She has a lot to offer, up to a point.
 
#35
Well, I for one, agree with most of your (PW) specific technical critiques, but I am not really hearing the degree of intonation problems being described by you and others in Missy's video clip. Maybe my ears are not good enough to hear it, but I know I am not alone in this observation.

However, I still reserve the right to "send out yer BOYZ" ;) if you get out of line and disrespect someone personally like that. :D
 
#37
Paul Warburton said:
What have you done, Jason? :eek:
Hey, you guys, I dint ever say hillbilly, it was Jason. :D
I did say Chick and i'm so sorry, Molly, when I shoulda' said person. Hey, I said "guy" in one of my posts. Is that ok?
Click to expand...

Only problem is that "guy" was a woman :D

My kids keep quoting that Danny Devito line from the Lorax "You wouldn't hit a woman would you". Devito says "Thats a woman?"
 
#38
lowEndRick said:
Well, I for one, agree with most of your (PW) specific technical critiques, but I am not really hearing the degree of intonation problems being described by you and others in Missy's video clip. Maybe my ears are not good enough to hear it, but I know I am not alone in this observation.

However, I still reserve the right to "send out yer BOYZ" ;) if you get out of line and disrespect someone personally like that. :D
Click to expand...

My BOYZ:ninja: are bigger and meaner than yerowns.
Why would I respect somebody that I don't necessarily respect?
Get a grip.
 
#39
Paul Warburton said:
My BOYZ:ninja: are bigger and meaner than yerowns.
Why would I respect somebody that I don't necessarily respect?
Get a grip.
Click to expand...

See that's where you cross the line and where YOU need to get a grip. You are entitled to your opinion and you can have respect for whomever you choose, but when you go public with name calling and derogatory comments like "awful", "chick" and "Expert Village", that is just mean spirited and unecessary. You should keep that stuff to yourself.
 
#40
lowEndRick said:
See that's where you cross the line and where YOU need to get a grip. You are entitled to your opinion and you can have respect for whomever you choose, but when you go public with name calling and derogatory comments like "awful", "chick" and "Expert Village", that is just mean spirited and unecessary. You should keep that stuff to yourself.
Click to expand...

Your line.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back