What specifically are engineers' Fender P and J recording preferences?

[George Ortega]

Having chosen a Fender Player P bass as the guitar within my budget that hopefully meets most studio engineers' preferences, I'm wondering what other details are important. For example, can I use flatwounds? Also, if I modded my Stagg BC300 short scale or my $99 Davidson full scale with Fender P pups and pots, could they potentially qualify as "P basses" for recording purposes?

I guess engineers tend use some already-defined e.q. settings when recording a P bass. Is there a web page or a book that explains exactly what those settings are so that maybe bassists can make sure their guitar meets those specs before entering the studio?

Thanks!

 

[testing1two]

Engineers are people so they will have varied opinions and preferences about gear which largely revolve around habitually recording vintage style P and J basses and boutique active basses plugged into a DI box straight into Pro Tools. Also don't forget the boss in the room is the producer so you and the engineer are both working to decipher what the producer is aiming for.

That said there are some fundamentals that every engineer wants/expects from a bass player in the studio:

1. Make sure the bass plays and stays in tune - this is not as easy as it sounds and there are many things that need to be addressed for this to happen from nut slot depth to bridge saddle intonation to strings to the accuracy of your tuner.
2. Make sure the bass plays cleanly - rattles and buzzes often disappear in a mix, but you won't make any friends if your bass track has all kinds of extemporaneous noise you can't get rid of. This also applies to electronics noise that come from dirty pots, poor quality wiring/soldering, and low quality instrument cables.
3. Make sure you play cleanly - Your technique in terms of muting, evenness, and finger noise is what really comes through on your tracks. The better your technique, the less time your tracks will take to mix downstream and time is money.

But here's the real secret: feel and attitude trumps gear every time. If your parts have truly good feel and confidence (and it doesn't take you 10 passes to get a good take), then it doesn't matter if you have a p-bass copy with dead strings and mile-high action or a spalted Fodera with strings so low they practically rests on the frets.

On top of that, most studios have a couple of basses and guitars stashed away in case they can't quite get a workable sound...but they aren't going to bring those out if your playing isn't great. At that point it's easier to just replace you.

So get your gear sorted out and then forget about it so you can focus on great playing and great interpersonal skills that make you easy to work with.

 

[garp]

There are several books and online resources about recording bass, but I don't think there's a definitive source. You will gradually amass your own database the more sessions you do.

Your Player P is a perfectly fine instrument. Whether or not you'll get grief because it's not a vintage, battle-scarred instrument with pickups wound by Abigail Ybarra (did she even wind bass pickups?) remains to be seen.

And to @testing1two's point, some engineers and producers will stipulate that you play their bass using their DI. So concentrate more on building your playing skills on the bass you already own, and on developing a good rapport with music biz people.

 

[abarson]

This is totally subjective and has a lot to do with how much of a gear snob the engineer is. I also think it's a very poor engineer who always sets their EQ, etc. to some pre-ordained setting, never to move from some imaginary idealized sweet spot. Each instrument is unique, each player is unique, each session is unique. An engineer who doesn't embrace this universal truth is a fool, in my book. Imagine the engineer who has to record Stanley Clarke: does he tell him to go home and bring his P-bass because he doesn't know how to record an Alembic? Or doesn't know how to get a good sound from Joe Dart's Carlo Robelli?

Are you planning on a career as a studio bassist? I wouldn't invest in instruments to cater to an engineer otherwise. And even then you have to have some autonomy in selecting what works for you, not him. What should get you hired is "your sound", and part of that is the tool you choose to use. Your string selection is also part of "your sound": can you get it with strings you don't like?

Look online for articles about session bass players. Most know that they need to have a P bass, a Jazz bass, something high end and active (often 5-string) and maybe a short scale in their quiver. Even Bobby Vega, whose style relies heavily on the tone he gets from Jazz basses, knows he has to have the right bass for the recording. It becomes a conversation between the player and the engineer what they are trying to achieve in a certain song. If that's not the case, it doesn't matter who plays the bass.

 

[George Ortega]

There are several books and online resources about recording bass, but I don't think there's a definitive source. You will gradually amass your own database the more sessions you do.

That's interesting, but you'd think that so many engineers identifying and preferring that same Fender P or J sound would mean that it has certain specific characteristics that are easily discernible to them as they begin to set the EQ. Actually, since reverse engineering is a routine practice in technology and manufacturing, and the Fender P/J sounds seem like the industry gold standard, you'd think other bass manufacturers would create their basses to sound identical, or nearly identical, to those Fenders.

I just got my P bass, and I can't believe how much better it sounds than my very inexpensive basses. I'd like to use flatwounds because they glide so much more easily, but am afraid to lose that sound.

 

[George Ortega]

Are you planning on a career as a studio bassist? I wouldn't invest in instruments to cater to an engineer otherwise. And even then you have to have some autonomy in selecting what works for you, not him. What should get you hired is "your sound", and part of that is the tool you choose to use. Your string selection is also part of "your sound": can you get it with strings you don't like?

Well, I'm partly concerned with not getting laughed out of a studio. The other reason I got the Fender P is that it apparently has a very desirable sound, as I just discovered for myself. I hope you're saying that flatwounds on Fender Ps would be okay with studios, and are part of that signature Fender sound, because I really prefer their feel.

 

[johnnynitro]

Interesting. I played a Ricky. for over 35 years (Prob. more) and most times I was in the studio. I was usually offered a P or J to do the recording with. I always declined. And it never went any farther. But I used to always notice most engineers/producers would ask this.

 

[garp]

That's interesting, but you'd think that so many engineers identifying and preferring that same Fender P or J sound would mean that it has certain specific characteristics that are easily discernible to them as they begin to set the EQ. Actually, since reverse engineering is a routine practice in technology and manufacturing, and the Fender P/J sounds seem like the industry gold standard, you'd think other bass manufacturers would create their basses to sound identical, or nearly identical, to those Fenders.

I'm not saying that some reverse engineering hasn't taken place. There are hundreds of P and J clones out there today, all pretty much built on the same chassis. But finding some compendium of public domain data on what producers and engineers are looking for would likely prove difficult. To wit: Even here on TB – a community of folks who play and know these instruments intimately – frequent thread topics such as "What Make a P a P?" and "What Makes a J a J?" spawn plenty of healthy debate.

 

[And I]

A producer may have an opinion on which instrument you should play. An engineer should not unless asked or unless struggling to get a tone that works for the song. As long as it's in tune, has no mechanical or electronics issues which compromise the recording, the strings aren't totally dead (unless that's the sound the song calls for), and you play it reasonably well, no engineer's preference should even cross your mind.

 

[silky smoove]

I guess engineers tend use some already-defined e.q. settings when recording a P bass.

As an engineer with a working studio I would say that this isn't typically the case. Some may work this way, but I definitely don't.

My rule as an engineer; Use whatever bass sounds good for the material. End of story. I don't care if it's a P, J, Fender, or any other brand. It's really that simple.

 

[testing1two]

The biggest reason P and J basses are so ubiquitous in the studio is not so much that the engineer knows how to make them sound good on a track (we can make lots of things sound good eventually), but rather the engineer hardly has to do anything for them to sound good on a track. Time is money and they have an entire band to worry about.

 

[JeezyMcNuggles]

Having chosen a Fender Player P bass as the guitar within my budget that hopefully meets most studio engineers' preferences, I'm wondering what other details are important. For example, can I use flatwounds? Also, if I modded my Stagg BC300 short scale or my $99 Davidson full scale with Fender P pups and pots, could they potentially qualify as "P basses" for recording purposes?

I guess engineers tend use some already-defined e.q. settings when recording a P bass. Is there a web page or a book that explains exactly what those settings are so that maybe bassists can make sure their guitar meets those specs before entering the studio?

Thanks!

One with flats, one with rounds. And no, your settings will change depending on the music, and the player. But...count on scooping 500-800hz a little.

 

[silky smoove]

A producer may have an opinion on which instrument you should play. An engineer should not unless asked or unless struggling to get a tone that works for the song.

This is an important distinction, and one that is rapidly diminishing in a world where the term "producer" is simultaneously being lost due to smaller budgets, and being co-opted by the hiphop/beats community to mean something that it was never intended to be. I know many engineers that fancy themselves producers, many beat-makers that fancy themselves producers, and very few actual producers. Some folks, like myself, will pull double-duty as engineer and producer if a group comes in with no clear leader and someone has to make decisions. I suspect that has become increasingly common with true producers being something of a novelty to many these days.

 

[Fun Size Nick]

Just an FYI for all that this is basically a continuation of this thread, as this may help in giving helpful responses.

 

[Killing Floor]

This is always interesting. I do not recall in my life ever hearing a producer or engineer ask a Tele player to play a Les Paul or a Strat. That's because even producers and engineers associate guitarists having their own sound.
"Hey, B.B., err I mean Mr. King, sir, ummm would you mind playing this Strat HSS fer me?"

I have been asked to use a P but only once or twice. I always have carried some iteration of a J and a P. I usually had a Ray or G&L or something else in the car. When I had my Kubicki nobody ever asked me to put it away and it didn't sound like anything else. The thing to remember is P basses have a pretty universally recognized sound profile. But really all of it comes down to how you play. And how well you meet the needs of the material. And don't spill your drink on the console.

 

[Deleted member 271037]

If the engineer uses "already defined eq settings" I would pack up and find another studio. A P-bass is usually very easy to mix but it needs to be eq'ed differently depending on what other instruments are involved, how they sound and the song/genre. Is the kick focused deeper than the bass or higher? The bass needs to be eq'ed to compliment the kick rather than fight with it. Is it an airy, open, organic/acoustic mix or a wall of distorted guitars? The bass would have to be processed very differently. Every mix is different.

Bass is the one instrument where I couldn't care less how it sounds soloed when recording (unless the bass is the main instrument, and let's face it, in 99% of bands it isn't). The most important thing with bass is how it sits in the mix. And most of the time that's not that same as how the bass sounds most impressive when playing alone.

No professional engineer would use pre-defined eq settings. At least no-one I know or would want to record with. I'm an engineer myself btw, much more so than a bass player these days.

A Player P-bass is an excellent choice. Very easy to record and no engineer should have any problems recording it. A decent studio should have a nice selection of DI boxes so you shouldn't have to worry about that. A great sounding amp/cab would be great if it's part of your sound but a decent studio should have that too IMO.

Choice of mics and other studio gear should be left to the engineer but if you want to learn more about it there's tons of info online. Just google "recording bass". The gearslutz forum is also a great resource for anything related to recording/mixing. One thing to be particularly aware of is phase related issues if you record DI + mic'ed amp simultaneously. That's probably the hardest part to get right when recording bass. Well that and the room acoustics if you're using an amp. But often just a DI will suffice, or even be better. It all depends on the song/genre/arrangements.

And yes, of course you can use flatwounds if that's the sound you want. Flatwounds record very nicely. I use flats on about 80% of the stuff I record, regardless of genre. I actually find them easier to record than roundwounds. Having said that, flats won't be suitable for all songs/genres.

In short: If you've got a nice P-bass that's set up properly, strings that you like the sound of and good playing skills you should have no problems recording in a decent studio.

 

[Killing Floor]

And get some flats for Pete's sake. You can put the rounds on a J.

 

[S-Bigbottom]

you'd think other bass manufacturers would create their basses to sound identical, or nearly identical, to those Fenders.

This line is said because you are fitting and fulfilling the Stereotype.

Yes, many have used Fender and many have not.

 

[scotch]

To the op: nope. The whole point of why so many traditional engineers prefer recording a P or J is because they don't have to eq/treat the tone much.

Whether or not folks like it, the 'Fender bias' was a real thing for decades. The landscape is changing now, however, in the professional recording world. Engineers are increasingly younger, more open minded, and occasionally ready to experiment.

Far more important is that your sound is consistent than having a 'certain' sound. If you're instrument plays in tune, has a fairly even response up and down the fingerboard, and you are able & aware of right hand playing dynamics: you're good to go these days.

 

[MasterG]

If youre paying this so called engineer you tell them record what I bring you....thats what Im paying you for. If I want your input on my sound or equipment Ill ask ya for it.