What to do when ambition exceeds talent

[BassChuck]

If you ambition doesn't exceed your ability (talent), why would you want to work at your craft?

 

[Fergie Fulton]

I've been trying to summarize my musical experience for some time - I have this "affliction" where I switch back and forth from guitar to bass. Each time I make the switch I have hit a wall with whatever instrument I'm working on and the drive to keep working at it wanes.

Then while watching TV the other day I heard something that summarized my musical experience: My ambition exceeds my talent.

I have spent a long time studying the theory of music - I know what scales are, what modes are, the difference between major/minor/augmented/diminished chords...but I just can't put it to the fretboard on either instrument. I can find notes and know some right off the top of my head...but I can't memorize the notes on each string and "see" them while playing.

I also can't remember all the notes for triads or arpeggios - I know some patterns but that isn't helpful overall. When I need to play over a chord I need to know what notes are good notes and where they are on the fretboard. If I go nice and slow, I can find the notes...but again, I can't "see" them.

So I feel like my ambition exceeds my talent. The ability to see the information I need seems to be totally out of reach.

I feel like I need to break the cycle somehow or quit playing music altogether. The essence of music is doing - and I'm not in any bands nor do I play for anyone. I would like to, but feel that I need to be much more developed before trying to be part of any creative process involving other people.

Am I describing something that others go through? How do I get past this??

I can summarise your situation in one word, application, then in a sentence. 'lack of application comes from lack of imagination'.

Get out a play, experience things and then put it into your music and playing, look at it another way, you have the words but no story to tell.

 

[zphreaky1]

Didn't get through the whole thread yet. Thought of this though.


The first time I played a bass was with a drummer and guitarist. They had been jamming on and off for over 10 years together. We have been playing together as two or three for about 9 months now. I'm pretty much the only one who practices regularly. We also record everything (cuz one of them has everything needed)

The first few weeks they were showing me root notes to play. Then I was finding them on my own. I learned a few patterns and I was starting to create my own lines.

But the best part is.....it was FUN! We always have a good time. One week I can't do something, I go home and practice, this week I can do it. Immediate gratification

Find some people to play with that don't mind how much you suck as you do (not saying you suck, just simplifying it)

 

[BrewsterRooster]

To hazard a guess, I wonder if you're not over-intellectualizing it. Most players I've known start by just picking up something to try by whatever means - lessons, ear, watching somebody else and imitating, fooling around. The point is to experience making some music, and from there technical proficiency develops. Many of these same people didn't start learning the theoretical aspects of music until much later, if they ever bothered at all. We can talk about arpeggios and scales and modes, augmented, diminished, demolished, and dimented until Rapture but unless all that stuff fits in your ear well enough to recognize AND process it, the theory may not be of much real use as a springboard.

I taught a lot of bass years ago and had a range of students. Most came with little or no experience. I tried to get a feel for where they wanted to go stylistically so I could start them with some technique geared to their interests. They'd bring me songs, I'd show them the basslines, and we'd work on those so the joy of just playing was the FIRST thing they had to show for their efforts. I called it "setting the hook." Theory is obviously an important part of music, but I sprinkled that on in small and measured doses until a given student had enough lines and chops under their belt to have felt the fun. Only then would we start deconstructing everything, getting into scales and modes, chord structure - and I always prefaced THAT with fretboard geometry before getting heavy into note names, or identifying intervals, or anything else. Students always took it as far as they needed to for their own interest level, and then took it on their own. I only saw one of them flat-out quit because he just "couldn't get it" (and in his case, the problem was a complete lack of motivation). One of the real suceess stories I saw was an electronics instructor with the Air Force. Very cerebral guy, great head for facts and figures, very disciplined. He picked me as a teacher and his first complaint was, "I love to play but I can't get out of this little box." The box he referred to was a major pentatonic on E, first position. I felt sure this guy would quit before long - what an awful place to be stuck! We got him outside the box by picking some tunes he liked that were in different keys and I showed him the lines verbatim. He grabbed everything like it was second nature, and hadn't even realized he could. Then came geometry, then came note names, then came scales, then basic triad structure, then arps, then progressions, then modes, then extended chords, and then even sight reading. He ate this stuff up and I got to work with him bi-weekly for about two years. I was moving out of state, but before I left he invited me to see his band play at a local venue. All he had to his name when he started was a single pentatonic scale, and now this guy was playing four sets of everything from classic rock to funk, improvising with a gusto, and very literally fronting a five piece band. His enthusiasm was huge. And I remember thinking as I left that all that "talent" would have probably gone right out the window if we hadn't broken through his mental block with the simple essence of making music.

Point is not to worry so much about what you're doing, just worry about doing it. Make all the mistakes you need to until your ear learns what's right and wrong. You obviously have the head for the theory and still will when it's time to concern yourself with it. Meanwhile, just pick it like you mean it and enjoy the ride!

 

[fearceol]

I have just read through the whole thread (so far), and I really think it should be sticky-ed.

Very often here on TB, people in a position similar to the OP's ask the same questions as in this thread.

The thread contains a wealth of information that everyone can use.

 

[bolophonic]

Sounds like the OP is stuck on the science of music, to the detriment of the art. "Talent" is a word that is overused and misused among inexperienced musicians. I think "skills" is a more accurate way of describing musical aptitude. A person can be immensely skilled in music theory, but still find themselves lacking in other departments if they don't put the time in. My advice to the OP would be to put the books away and start building new musical skills by playing with other people. Otherwise, you are just doing a bunch of math problems at home.

 

[dvh]

Otherwise, you are just doing a bunch of math problems at home.

That's a great way to put it....

 

[RustyAxe]

Practice, practice, practice. Or smoke a lot more weed (that seems to kill ambition all together). I highly recommend the former.

 

[bigboy_78]

Check out Scott Devine’s Most Important Lesson video. He posted a link to it in here a while back.

It’s on youtube and at his site.

 

[SirMjac28]

Get into politics.

 

[AngelCrusher]

When I'm playing I'm thinking shapes, never notes. Thinking "I'm going to play a G followed by a Bb when you're playing a minor arp is waaaay to complex.

You should be able to do both.

It's not like you are thinking about it the way you illustrated. But if I was playing a solo and you stopped me, I could tell you that note I just played, the note I stopped on, and the note that was coming.

How else can you properly harmonize?

I understand putting patterns under your fingers. That is cool. But over reliance on that will result in muscle memory playing, which results in stagnation.

 

[Russell L]

I think patterns do help. The main thing is to know your fretboard well enough to at least know your on the right fret to start. So, yeah, ya gotta know your notes. But I find that as long as I'm on the correct fret for the root, the pattern tells me the rest without my brain having to name each and every note. Kinda like grabbing a chord on guitar. You just feel that shape. Or playing a lead, I never think of each note name. Of course, I also know what the notes are.

Some don't agree with my thinking on this, but it's worked for me all my life as a musician. I also have a degree in theory, so at least I KNOW what's what.

 

[gregmon79]

I think patterns do help. The main thing is to know your fretboard well enough to at least know your on the right fret to start. So, yeah, ya gotta know your notes. But I find that as long as I'm on the correct fret for the root, the pattern tells me the rest without my brain having to name each and every note. Kinda like grabbing a chord on guitar. You just feel that shape. Or playing a lead, I never think of each note name. Of course, I also know what the notes are.

Some don't agree with my thinking on this, but it's worked for me all my life as a musician. I also have a degree in theory, so at least I KNOW what's what.

I totally agree and do the same thing. It works for me too. I may hit a sour note every now and again but that is what writing is all about, finding the right notes for where and when. I see patterns a lot easier than I see notes. Although I to know the fretboard well as far as what note I'm hitting.

 

[AngelCrusher]

I totally agree and do the same thing. It works for me too. I may hit a sour note every now and again but that is what writing is all about, finding the right notes for where and when. I see patterns a lot easier than I see notes. Although I to know the fretboard well as far as what note I'm hitting.

Yep. That is basically what I was saying. Know the fretboard, know the notes. In the heat of the moment you aren't really thinking at all..just doing your thing.

But to really come up with some killer, sophisticated stuff that helps push your playing, I think it is key to have a very balanced mindset when it comes to patterns and notes.