What to play when jamming

[Migsy54]

Hey there, I'm looking to expand my bass playing technique when jamming. I'm wondering which scale is best to use, eg major scale for playing over major chords and minor over minor or are arpeggios more effective?
Please keep in mind I'm just looking for a place to start and then to build from there.
Thanks for any help,
Gareth

 

[Mushroo]

Hi Gareth,
In my opinion the first step to being good at jamming is to learn the song very well. So, let's pick one specific song, and then we can talk about a concrete example. Can you please select one famous song where the bassist is "jamming," and then we can study what the bassist is doing, and how you can learn to play like that, too. "How do I sound good jamming on every song ever written" is a vast and overwhelming topic, but "how do I jam on the song _______?" is a manageable topic.

 

[BassChuck]

Mushroo is right. Improvising on a song means paying attention to the elements and part of what make that song different from others. It's the thing that makes the difference between improvising and wanking. It's the difference between bringing your audience along with you and show them something interesting about the song you're performing or showing them a scale or two.

 

[Fred Pucci]

Never forget your first priority is to set, maintain and drive the groove. In doing so, it's always a better choice to lean on arpeggios than running up and down scales. If you're talking about soloing when you say jamming, then you probably would blend more notes from the scales as you try to create an interesting "melody" in your riffs.

Would also suggest you look at varying your rhythmic patterns during your jams to create some variety. For instance, instead of straight legato quarter notes, try staccato eighth notes on 1 and 3 with rests on 2 and 4. Mix it up, there are a ton of variations you can try— all with the same set of notes, but sounding dramatically differently. Watch what happens when you hear the drummer pick up on your rhythmic pattern! Or the guitarist!
Long winded way of saying that sometimes the simplest patterns with some well placed space can be more effective than a complicated out-of-the-box riff.

 

[SaucyJackBass]

Agree with everyone that said first and foremost understand how you lock with the drummer. Groove is everything. Root on 1 is almost always the key and then there are little tricks (very dependent on the song). Root-lower 5th-Root is extremely common. The root-lower 6-root-2-root is a great turn around. You may sometimes want to avoid thirds unless its part of a walk up or walk down (ignore what I just said if it is a blues walking line). Root-5-octave is a nice way to make a chord stand out at the end of a progression.

Probably the one thing to remember is it is really easy for you to step on someone else. Avoid too much action during the vocal parts and guitar solos. During solos, the more you can lay down close to the same groove with different turnarounds, the less conflict the sound will have.

Just real quick ideas.

 

[JRA]

I'm looking to expand my bass playing technique when jamming.

just so you know: so is everyone else!

if you're looking for a quick-and-dirty, 'concepts for dummies' = it's probably not going to happen!

- do have a decent 'ear' for music --- can you pick out parts in a tune, not just bass parts?
- do you read music?
- have you taken any lessons?
- do you play any other instruments?

supply some information about 'where you're at' with the instrument to get some appropriate encouragement/guidance. thanks. good luck!

 

[Malcolm35]

...… when jamming. I'm wondering which scale is best to use, eg major scale for playing over major chords and minor over minor or are arpeggios more effective? Please keep in mind I'm just looking for a place to start and then to build from there.

​

Dirt simple jamming - follow the chords in the key the song is using and be happy with a root-five. Don't know the key - ask. Don't know the chord progression for this song - grab a 12 bar blues progression and hang on, i.e. bet on the old I-IV-V.

Pounding the I to the rhythm of the song is step one. When that is comfortable, throw in the IV. The V normally happens twice in a four line verse. To jam you gotta jam a lot - . Start pounding the I.

I///|IV///|I///|I///|
IV///|IV///|I///|I///|
V///|IV///|I///|V///| loop back and start over or the I to end.

Notice the I and IV are used the most. If in doubt a I or IV will get you by. The IV can sub for the minor chords. Then the old tried and true - look at the rhythm guitar's fretting hand and use the chord he is playing.

Jamming is like horse shoes and grenades - close is normally good enough. Put on a video/CD and see what you can do with the ole I-IV-V.

 

[mambo4]

"Jamming" has various possible contexts.
There are blues jams, bluegrass jams, jazz jams
and stoner jams where everyone plays E minor pentatonic until the drugs wear off.

to hang in a jam for a specifc style you need a large vocabulary of the bass lines & phrases of that style
practically speaking this means you have to pay your dues learning the catalog
Just google "10 <insert style here> songs everyone should know" for a starting point

Alternately just learn E minor pentatonic and move to a State with legal weed.

only half joking: If you know the key of the song, pentatonic scales can be excellent for improvising over most diatonic tunes. But there's no real short cut to knowing and supporting the chords

 

[Dirk Diggler]

1) Always hit the root note of the chord change on the 1 beat.
2) Learn your major and minor scales cold, that should cover most music.
3) Don't just play scales or arpeggios, but use those notes to guide your improvisation.

Let your ear do the hard work, and have fun, good luck.
Dirk

 

[Migsy54]

Hey Mushroo, thanks for the response. So let's say Herbie Hancock's Chameleon. I know the bass line is a main part of the song but let's say the keyboardist is playing that part and I get to jam over top.
Thanks for your help with this.

 

[Lobster11]

Oh, that's easy -- just do this:

 

[logdrum]

Hey Mushroo, thanks for the response. So let's say Herbie Hancock's Chameleon. I know the bass line is a main part of the song but let's say the keyboardist is playing that part and I get to jam over top.
Thanks for your help with this.

If you are playing Herbie Hancock, you are already better than most folks here. Learn how to play the head/melody of the tune on the bass. And then when jamming keep that in mind . and you can refer to it by chopping it up rhythmically or harmonize. Then do not just fall into the pentatonic escape, that's being lazy. Learn the chord notes not the scale , then do chord substitutions and learn the chord notes and always keep the head/main melody in your head. Learn the diminished scale if you have to play scales And you can do this even with stoned hippies who can actually play.

 

[Boundary Effect]

Learn the pentatonic scale/pattern up and down the neck. Here it is in G on a four string:


First Degree
o o o o oo
--||----|-A--|----|-B--|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|
--||----|-E--|----|----|-G--|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|
--||----|-B--|----|----|-D--|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|
--||----|----|-G--|----|-A--|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|



Second Degree
o o o o oo
--||----|----|----|-B--|----|----|-D--|----|----|----|----|----|
--||----|----|----|----|-G--|----|-A--|----|----|----|----|----|
--||----|----|----|----|-D--|----|-E--|----|----|----|----|----|
--||----|----|----|----|-A--|----|-B--|----|----|----|----|----|



Third Degree
o o o o oo
--||----|----|----|----|----|----|-D--|----|-E--|----|----|----|
--||----|----|----|----|----|----|-A--|----|-B--|----|----|----|
--||----|----|----|----|----|----|-E--|----|----|-G--|----|----|
--||----|----|----|----|----|----|-B--|----|----|-D--|----|----|



Fifth degree
o o o o oo
--||----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|-E--|----|----|-G--|
--||----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|-B--|----|----|-D--|
--||----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|-G--|----|-A--|
--||----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|-D--|----|-E--|




Sixth degree
// o oo o o
//|----|----|----|-G--|----|-A--|----|----|----|
//|----|----|----|-D--|----|-E--|----|----|----|
//|----|----|----|-A--|----|-B--|----|----|----|
//|----|----|----|-E--|----|----|-G--|----|----|

 

[Mushroo]

Hey Mushroo, thanks for the response. So let's say Herbie Hancock's Chameleon. I know the bass line is a main part of the song but let's say the keyboardist is playing that part and I get to jam over top.
Thanks for your help with this.

Thanks for clarifying your goals and narrowing down the conversation.

First I just want to say the word "jamming" means different things to different people. The skill that you are talking about, I personally would call that "soloing," and so that's the word I will use for the rest of my post (but that's just semantics, no big deal).

One of the first questions I always ask myself when learning a new song, "what key is it in?"

"Chameleon" is perhaps not the easiest first choice, for purposes of answering that question. What key do you think "Chameleon" is in?

Another essential step for soloing over a song like "Chameleon" is to learn the bass line, chords, and melody. One thing that strikes me immediately about "Chameleon" is that the famous and prominent bass line contains chromatic notes from outside the key signature, written with "accidental" symbols and used as "passing notes." (Let me know if you are unfamiliar with those terms.) So right from the very beginning, the composers of the song have given you "permission" to go outside the scale. So in that sense, I feel, "What is the correct scale to solo on 'Chameleon'?" is a trick question, because the actual bass line of the song itself does not strictly limit itself to the notes of the scale, so therefore, neither should the soloist feel constrained.

 

[Spin Doctor]

Unless you are listening to the original, I prefer this version of Chameleon. That one with Tal playing is sloppy as hell. This one also has the full version of the song, which almost nobody does, but we do in our band.



Additionally, Chameleon isn't a song where you need to be overly concerned about the key it's in. You just play the bassline and keep it funky. That's all you need to do as a bassist which makes it a great song to learn to jam. You just keep the pocket. There are better examples to use if you want to worry about key signature.

 

[nilorius]

Start to play anything, together with your drummer, the others will find their side. Before you jam take care of the chords you will do, to make that jam easier.

 

[mobeme23]

jamming is a highly subjective term, for all the right reasons.
aside from technique, the best improvisers tend to have really big ears.

i find the best jams come when everyone is actively listening to each other and creating enough space in the mix for everyone's instrument to sit in balance.

it also helps to get in the moment and remove distractions as best you can (stray thoughts or concerns about your mix, what you are playing vs. how you are playing, whether people are digging what you are playing, etc.). Once you start thinking too much, you might miss the bus.

anything as simple as laying on the root note, and adjusting the rhythm to add complexity, will potentially fall flat if it's not done with a spirit of invention and confidence, balanced by a general sense of empathy from the group.

all that said, you are in the rhythm section, so the groove is the goal.
everything else is bonus, from the audience perspective.

 

[Mushroo]

Additionally, Chameleon isn't a song where you need to be overly concerned about the key it's in. You just play the bassline and keep it funky. That's all you need to do as a bassist which makes it a great song to learn to jam. You just keep the pocket. There are better examples to use if you want to worry about key signature.

You're getting at the reason why I distinguished between "soloing" and "jamming" in my comments above.

I define "soloing" as stepping in to the spotlight and playing a part that draws attention to yourself, becoming the temporary "musical leader." Your solo could be improvised on the spot, or it could be a pre-composed solo that you worked out ahead of time. On the other hand I think of "jamming" as casual music-making with a strong element of spontaneity. Maybe there is no rehearsal, or you are playing with new musicians for the first time, or it could even just be getting together in someone's garage and playing for fun. Sometimes in a "jamming" situation, you aren't even playing "songs" in the strict sense of the word, you are just loosely improvising.

A lot of times we are both "jamming" and "soloing" at the same time. But (according to my definitions, at least) it is certainly possible to have one without the other!

I think if we are "soloing" on Chameleon, then you're right, it's not terribly important to know what "key" the song is in. So long as your solo sounds good, who cares the intellectual process you used to create that solo? There are great soloists who think in terms of note names, soloists who think in terms of key centers, soloists who think in terms of shapes & patterns, soloists who think in terms of sound color & texture, and so forth. All of these approaches to soloing can be valid, so long as they result in a solo that sounds good.

But if we are "jamming" on the other hand, then I think it's vitally important to know the key of the song, otherwise you could have a musical train wreck. If the leader of the jam calls out "Chameleon in E" then you'd darn well better understand what that means. Seems at least once a week, we have a thread on TalkBass where someone got fired or failed an audition because the bassist was playing in a different key than the rest of the band. And that pretty much never sounds good.

 

[Dirk Diggler]

To go with one of the points mobeme23 stated, I'll quote Carlos Santana on the subject of improvisation,
"if you're thinkin', your stinkin'".

 

[Migsy54]

Thanks Boundary Effect for including all that!