What use is an FX Loop?

[MtManiac]

I just bought a used Yorkville Bassmaster 200, as an upgrade from a 20 year old Traynor Bloc 40B that I bought new. I'm not real sure what the FX loop is good for... I would normally cable into my FX from my bass, and out from my FX to my amp. Why would I want to cable in to my amp and out to my FX and back into my amp? What does this do for me?

- Bill

 

[CetiAlphaVI]

It doesn't do a darn thing if your fx are stompboxes. Most amp manufacturer's fx loops are post preamp, so the signal level is not what stomps are looking for. They are for rack effects such as a Lexicon MPX1 or a Boss SE-70, etc.

 

[MtManiac]

It doesn't do a darn thing if your fx are stompboxes. Most amp manufacturer's fx loops are post preamp, so the signal level is not what stomps are looking for. They are for rack effects such as a Lexicon MPX1 or a Boss SE-70, etc.

Cool, thanks - I am using stompers.

 

[bassbmx]

It doesn't do a darn thing if your fx are stompboxes. Most amp manufacturer's fx loops are post preamp, so the signal level is not what stomps are looking for. They are for rack effects such as a Lexicon MPX1 or a Boss SE-70, etc.

There's already been a heated argument over this but you're not righ in saying that it's not good for any stomp boxes. There are plenty of stomp boxes that work great in the FX loop of an amp. I'm sure somone else will chime in soon.

 

[CetiAlphaVI]

There's already been a heated argument over this but you're not righ in saying that it's not good for any stomp boxes. There are plenty of stomp boxes that work great in the FX loop of an amp. I'm sure somone else will chime in soon.

Sure there are some. That's not there intended use or design. I could really care less that there's a heated discussion somewhere else. The poster was concerned about whether he needed to use the loop or not. The OP has never used a loop before and was quite happy not needing it before. Why does he need to use one now? He doesn't. Bring it on.

 

[TyronPotamkin]

There's already been a heated argument over this but you're not righ in saying that it's not good for any stomp boxes. There are plenty of stomp boxes that work great in the FX loop of an amp. I'm sure somone else will chime in soon.

Sure there are some. That's not there intended use or design. I could really care less that there's a heated discussion somewhere else. The poster was concerned about whether he needed to use the loop or not. The OP has never used a loop before and was quite happy not needing it before. Why does he need to use one now? He doesn't. Bring it on.

I agree with both of you guys but at the same time it really depends on what kind of effects are used at what times. I run a Carvin CG200 rack compressor through the effects loop, I also run a Boss ODB-3 bass overdrive. Now with the compressor running strictly through the effects loop and the pedal run in-line with my bass, the pedal is completely washed out of the mix as soon as it's engaged even with pedal volume maxed. But when I run the pedal on the return side of the loop after the compressor, I get a nice hot signal to the pedal and the pedal adds its share of gain and I have a nice thick, fat, overdrive that makes your legs shake.

 

[JanusZarate]

As a rule of thumb, I save the effects loop for rack equipment, as that is what it is normally intended for. If you're not using any rack gear (i.e., rack compressors, rack EQ, rack effects, etc.), then don't worry about the effects loop. Just be thankful it's there, if you ever get something that needs it.

Some effects pedals can work in the effects loop - mainly modulation effects with a high tolerance for line-level inputs. Plus, having an effects loop allows you to bypass the preamp by simply plugging in a different preamp pedal or rackmount preamp of choice into the "Effects Return" jack.

 

[Bassflute]

I just bought a used Yorkville Bassmaster 200, as an upgrade from a 20 year old Traynor Bloc 40B that I bought new. I'm not real sure what the FX loop is good for... I would normally cable into my FX from my bass, and out from my FX to my amp. Why would I want to cable in to my amp and out to my FX and back into my amp? What does this do for me?

- Bill

are for all FX. When you plug an FX pedal into your preamp, you are preamping and amplifying everything, including the noise they generate. The FX loop runs the signal into the line and blends it with the original signal; also, it offers little in the way of pre-amplification, so signal noise is greatly diminished. And if your fx pedals are weaker or noisier, it won't diminish the signal and frequency range as much.

You're free to plug into the front end if you like, but FX loops are there for fx; for purity of the signal chain, you should use them for everything. Most loops on bass amps are unbalanced -10dB signals, which 98% of pedals will run just fine on; in fact, if you're running a passive bass, the pedals might actually respond better to the hotter signal.

Cheers,
Cameron

 

[Discount Saint]

I'm experiencing a strange issue with the FX loop on my Backline 600. When I was only using a Big Muff, I had it running through the FX loop just fine, no problems at all - levels all seemed alright (though I never did try plugging in directly). I recently added a Zoom B2.1u to the equation, and everything seems to work fine when I go direct from my bass into the Zoom and then into the Big Muff and out into the amp input, but when I try going through the FX loop (FX send --> B2.1u --> Big Muff --> FX return) I seem to get very little output with just the Zoom's power on, and if I activate the Big Muff I get no signal at all.

It's not a huge issue, as I can just go direct, but I would like to know if there is something I am screwing up with the FX loop so that I could use it if I wanted to.. any help?

 

[JanusZarate]

Saint, don't use the effects loop for those two. They're best out in front of the preamp. The Zoom is probably not producing enough output to be suitable for the poweramp, so rather than crank everything to 10 on those pedals, don't use the effects loop.

EDIT: IMO, The Big Muff, at least, sounds much better in front.

 

[God of Rapture]

I run a Boss Chorus pedal in the loop on my Sansamp RBI. It is left on all the time so i never step on it anyway.

 

[Akito]

The SWR SM 900 that I used to own had a nifty effects blend knob on the front that let you control the level of effects in the loop mixed into your clean signal. That kind of thing can be very useful when using some extreme effects while retaining some clean bass.

 

[Puru]

An effects loop is also good for bypassing your amp's preamp, and running a separate preamp such as SansAmp, Pod, Etc. directly to your power section. That's what I use mine for.

 

[Rick_no7]

I have always ran my Envelope Filters post EQ in an effects loop. I don't want to EQ all the wooshes and bleeps of the effect.

Same with a compressor. I don't want to compress my bass signal only to have the EQ mess with the signal again. Its self-defeating really. I want my entire tone, post-EQ, to be compressed.

Now with something like a fuzz or distortion pedal, I like it to be pre-EQ because its changing the character of the bass, not just adding an effect. Fuzz pedals tend to drop the low end, having it pre-EQ means I can boost the bass.

Now, I went kind of extreme with this and its the reason I decided on the Thunderfunk and the TraceSMX. It has Pre-EQ and Post-EQ loops, and also a tuner out. There is zero reason to ever have anything between my bass and the amp. That means my amp is getting as clear as possible the representation of my bass.

 

[bongomania]

Most loops on bass amps are unbalanced -10dB signals, which 98% of pedals will run just fine on

I would dispute both halves of this statement, at least the words "most" and "98%". Loops in combo amps are often -10dB, but in amp heads they are often +4dB; some units have a switch between the two levels, some don't; and many users' manuals (e.g. Ampeg) don't specify the loop levels. Maybe "98%" of pedals with input level controls, using modern transistors, and designed to work with active basses can work with a -10dB preamped signal; but I think a much lower percentage of pedals out there actually have all of those design elements. Anyone who uses a Muff or other old-fashioned fuzz pedal with a passive bass understands the need to put that pedal immediately after their pickups, not after any other buffers or gain stages.

Couple of edits:

-Even if "old-fashioned fuzzes" were to be considered only .0001% (or whatever) of the total number of pedals produced and sold, the odds of a bassist wanting to use a fuzz like that are pretty darn high, at least among fx users. Just search on "Muff" or fuzz" over in the fx forum for corroboration. And there are lots of other pedals not ideally designed to work with preamplified signals- Ashdown had to put warning labels on some of their pedals last year because of that, and have since then supposedly changed their designs.

-I'm going to do some more research on the subject of the +4/-10dB loops, and update my FAQ page accordingly. Also, in spite of what I argued above, there probably are enough instances where somebody would have both a -10dB loop and a pedal that is compatible with active basses, that it's worth experimenting and reporting further on that.

-No matter what I or anybody else says about how things are "meant to be", it's always worth experimenting to see which way works best with the specific gear at hand. Neither the amp nor the fx will be damaged by that experiment!

 

[Discount Saint]

Hmm.. all good thoughts.. I guess I should try putting the Big Muff first in the chain before the Zoom - I always figured it was better to use distorting after the other effects, but perhaps my thinking is wrong in this?

Also - given the issue I am encountering, would it be advisable to use the Big Muff direct from my bass and then into the amp, and stick the Zoom through the loop, or vice-versa?

 

[Bassflute]

An effects loop is also good for bypassing your amp's preamp, and running a separate preamp such as SansAmp, Pod, Etc. directly to your power section. That's what I use mine for.

you're blending the two of them. The FX loop needs a pre-amp to work, the signal going into the loop is mixed with the pre-amp signal.

C.

 

[Bassflute]

I would dispute both halves of this statement, at least the words "most" and "98%". Loops in combo amps are often -10dB, but in amp heads they are often +4dB; some units have a switch between the two levels, some don't; and many users' manuals (e.g. Ampeg) don't specify the loop levels. Maybe "98%" of pedals with input level controls, using modern transistors, and designed to work with active basses can work with a -10dB preamped signal; but I think a much lower percentage of pedals out there actually have all of those design elements. Anyone who uses a Muff or other old-fashioned fuzz pedal with a passive bass understands the need to put that pedal immediately after their pickups, not after any other buffers or gain stages.

Couple of edits:

-Even if "old-fashioned fuzzes" were to be considered only .0001% (or whatever) of the total number of pedals produced and sold, the odds of a bassist wanting to use a fuzz like that are pretty darn high, at least among fx users. Just search on "Muff" or fuzz" over in the fx forum for corroboration. And there are lots of other pedals not ideally designed to work with preamplified signals- Ashdown had to put warning labels on some of their pedals last year because of that, and have since then supposedly changed their designs.

-I'm going to do some more research on the subject of the +4/-10dB loops, and update my FAQ page accordingly. Also, in spite of what I argued above, there probably are enough instances where somebody would have both a -10dB loop and a pedal that is compatible with active basses, that it's worth experimenting and reporting further on that.

-No matter what I or anybody else says about how things are "meant to be", it's always worth experimenting to see which way works best with the specific gear at hand. Neither the amp nor the fx will be damaged by that experiment!

in the entire bass amp kingdom. I've looked - there AIN'T any. Line level, unbalanced, is -10dBu. Most amps have that. Some combos don't even meet the requirements for -10dBu - that may be what you're referring to.

Cameron

 

[JanusZarate]

No matter what I or anybody else says about how things are "meant to be", it's always worth experimenting to see which way works best with the specific gear at hand. Neither the amp nor the fx will be damaged by that experiment!

+1 - If I lower the input level of my preamp, I can actually use my Clone Theory in the loop without issues. That's also where it happens to be its quietest, and it sounds quite good there. However, my tone is dependent on a higher preamp gain level, so it doesn't work for my situation.

Hmm.. all good thoughts.. I guess I should try putting the Big Muff first in the chain before the Zoom - I always figured it was better to use distorting after the other effects, but perhaps my thinking is wrong in this?

Most guitarists and bassists actually place other effects (like delay, chorus, etc.) after distortion, from what I've seen. However, it never hurts to try it the other way. Take the band Death From Above 1979 for example. The bassist used a chorus pedal in front of two solid-state amps pushed to the distortion point, and it sounds awesome.

There's no hard and fast rules for this kind of stuff. You'll see it gets especially complicated with people who use both overdrive and distortion pedals and combine them. Some people like it in one order, some people like it in another.

Also - given the issue I am encountering, would it be advisable to use the Big Muff direct from my bass and then into the amp, and stick the Zoom through the loop, or vice-versa?

Yeah, I'd put the Muff out front, as it's particularly sensitive to the input level. Many fuzz pedals don't like the high output of active basses... so you could imagine how much a preamp's output could adversely affect the Muff. My Little Big Muff works fine with active basses, but others have had issues with it and other fuzz pedals with active basses.

As for the Zoom... if it can handle the output of a preamp while still pumping out a sufficient output for the poweramp, it could easily stay in the effect loop. I'd highly recommend trying it out front first, both before and after the Muff; after all, it's a multi-effects unit, so you're dealing with a lot of possibilities. See where you like it better, and remember you'll have to adjust its output level accordingly!

Personally, I'd do Bass => Big Muff => Zoom B2.1u => Amp Input.

 

[bongomania]

you're blending the two of them. The FX loop needs a pre-amp to work, the signal going into the loop is mixed with the pre-amp signal.

Nope, that's only true for parallel loops. Serial loops (more common IME) are a direct interruption/connection between the preamp and the power amp. Many people use their serial fx return as a way to use different preamps with the power section of a combined head.