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What's a "lawsuit" bass?

H

hublocker

May 17, 2007
265
4
#1
I've heard of these copies that were so good that Fender sued the Japanese manufacturers.

What were they?

I remember reading somewhere that Tokai brand basses and guitars were very good.

I was in Japan in 1974 and I'll tell you, they had a brand there called "Greco" that had perfect copies of Strats and Les Pauls and P-Basses, as far as I could tell at the time.

I think they were sold under another name abroad. Maybe Ibanez, maybe Tokai.

There is someone here in Vancouver saying their "National" brand P-Bass is one.

Don't know whether to believe that story.
 
#2
I suppose anything where a copy company got TOO close to a big manufacturer's product, and were subsequently sued by said manufacturer, could be considered a "lawsuit" instrument. I think it's intended to imply that the copy company was making instruments that were not only nearly identical in appearance but also in quality.

Such is the case with one of my basses. :cool:

I have an Ibanez "Lawsuit Jazz Bass" known as the Silver Series; blond on blond with black blocks. You almost couldn't tell it's a Fender save for the logo. Mine was made a month before Fender's "cease and desist" order came through.
 
#3
It has no proper definition, so people abuse the term in order to make their vintage ripoff bass sound more exciting.

There were a couple of lawsuits- Fender, Gibson, and Rickenbacker, over Japanese copies of their trademarked designs. The specific Japanese basses which are exact copies of those trademarked designs, which pre-date the specific lawsuits, are technically what "should" be called "lawsuit basses".

But again, people now broadly use it to mean any cheap lookalike, it makes their cheap bass sound more important.
 
#7
My old Ibanez Silver Series fretless was a "Lawsuit" bass. It had the the Fender headstock, they even did the Ibanez logo such if you looked at it quick you might think it says Fender! I wish I still had that bass....it was a great instument! I used it all through college.

ibanez.jpg
 
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#10
Lawsuit [copy] as I understand it is an unauthorized copy of a famous company/model axe that has an identical headstock to the real model its patterned after. That and a lot of times the lawsuit copy will actually be as good or better in quality. I have an early 70s (though some lawsuit les paul collectors I have checked with feel late 60s) Lawsuit Les Paul patterned after the 2 bucker 'black beautys' of the late 60s. The headstock is IDENTICAL to a gibson (the perfect 'open book' headstock). If you put my black beauty against a real one, you can't tell the difference. There is one difference though, the inlaid MOP on the headstock is facing the opposite way on my copy but at a glance you generally wont notice it. Mine is a no name brand. There is absolutely no markings on it but it is believed to be an Ibanez. This baby also has a neck far faster and better then the half doz or so real les pauls I have played over the years.

My first bass was a Lawsuit '78 Precision copy by Memphis. It had the exact same headstock, body shape, ashtrays, pups, pickguard. Again, if you put it next to a real '78 Fender P you could not tell the difference. From what little I know its not so much that the big names got upset that their models were copied. That was 'ok' but when the headstocks were the spitting image of the real deal thats when it was no longer 'ok'.
 
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#12
I believe that the above statement 'lawsuit were exact copies' is the most exact one. However, I must say that there were not-so-exact copies that, first, were very close to or better than the original; second, were tried in court.
If you recall that in early 80-ies the quality of all American brands was way less than the money charged for it you'll understand how a copy can be better than the original.
Example: the Japanese value american instruments very much, but today the 1200 Series Greco costs much more than a Gibson USA Les Paul Custom.
 
#15
Search for Michael Wright's books. He writes for vintage guitar mag regularly, and has a few books out - he is an expert on the obscure brands and such, with particular expertise on the Japanese brands. He will be able to tell you about the so-called 'lawsuits' - which never really came to pass. By the time Norlin, which owned Gibson were ready to sue, the main targets Hoshino (Ibanez), Matusmoko and Arai (Aria) had shifted ground and changed both peghead and body designs. Fender's strategy was to contract Tokai to start Fender Japan, but the contract went to Fujigen Gakki.

Generally when someone says "lawsuit" they are (or should be) referring to Fender/Gibson copies made in the latter half of the 70s (hence lawsuit era) that came very close in look and detail and in terms of craft exceeded or matched the quality of the Fender(CBS)/Gibson (Norlin) production at the time, at a fraction of the price. Generally these were made by the better factories and were the bigger names like Ibanez and Aria. In the internal Japanese Market, you'd find Greco, which were out of the fujigen factory, making excellent copies. One attraction was that the copies went beyond the normal Fender/Gibson offerings, and extended into the desirable model territory which were not available - the vintage styled explorers, Vs, firebirds, vintage style fenders, vintage style gibsons, dot bound ricks....

There were many many other copies made but they were not generally of the quality or quantity of the Ibanez/Aria copies of the time. Some smaller companies like Fernandes and Tokai were also producing excellent Fender copies. Hondo/Morris/Maya etc etc etc were largely brands which did not at the time have much of a market share of the copy market,though Hondo later did.
 
#16
I have a friend who has a late 70s Fernandez strat with a Fender shaped headstock but the block letter "Fernandez" logo. The original "Lawsuit" Fernandez guitars had a script Fernandez logo which looked very close to the "Fender" logo. My friend's Fernandez guitar plays, looks, and sounds 100% the business.
 
#17
The "LAWSUIT" was filed by Gibson's parent company, Norlin, in 1977 against Ibanez for trademark infringements upon it's headstock design, to wit, the "Moustache" at the top of the headstock.

Those are in fact the ONLY lawsuit guitars.

Norlin attorneys arrived at the 1977 Trade Show, warrants in hand, expecting to confiscate Ibanez's illicit offerings. But, for SOME strange reason, Ibanez decided to copy Guild's headstock that year, and Notrlin left empty handed. :p

However embarrassed Norlin may have been, they got Ibanez's attention, and they settled out of court. Ibanez, Univox, Electra, etc..etc...ad nauseum had to come up with their own designs, or face the THREAT of a lawsuit. (Much like when Leo Fender put Bass by Leo Fender, and used a Very Familiar headstock shape on some early G&L basses)

The term "Law Suit Era" may be more appropriate for these early copies. The design was not exact, and the quality was rarely even as close as the original, although for a fraction of the price, you got what LOOKED like an expensive instrument. But the only TRUE lawsuit era instruments are the Pre-1977 Ibanez instruments with the Gibson "Mustache" headstocks.
 

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