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Whats best cabinet for Eden Wt800c???

#41
Downunderwonder said:
I don't think I've ever heard strong 30Hz
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Um...yeah, I gather. It doesn't sound like you want to, either.

Dude- there are tons of hi-fi speakers which will easily reproduce a strong 30 Hz, some which will go another octave below that, into the infrasonic.

I use a Carver True Subwoofer which is strong to about 18 Hz.

I am intimately familiar with a handful of models for bass guitar that effortlessly reproduce 30 Hz, as well, and I know a few thousand other people who are, also.

This ain't the holy grail. I'm sort of getting the impression that you're somewhat invested in denying that such a thing is possible. Trust me- it's not.

Oh- and as long as we're down under, check out this Aussie subwoofer, flat to 16 Hz: http://acmebass.com/archive_files/mag_articles/audio_magazine/whise_320_subwoofer_09-1999.pdf

This company seems to have disappeared. I suspect that they heard from the Bose team of lawyers, who are known to be fairly aggressive. The impedance curve of this Whise, and that of the Bose AM5 are remarkably similar, and the qualitative description of how the Whise works suggest other similarities, as well.

Thanks,
Andy
 
#42
Vince Klortho said:
Andy : when I wrote "A solid 60Hz can be more effective" I mean a system that is able to produce 60Hz well can sound better than one that farts out when trying to put out frequencies lower than that which the OP seem to indicate he has. This is why I tried to point out that the fundamental is a much quieter tone than the first harmonic (80Hz for the low E) because this (the first harmonic) is where most of the action really is.

MMV = mileage may vary.

BTW - I have a very high regard for good drummers. :)
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I never said I was a good drummer, only that I managed to get paid to do it!

Thanks,
Andy
 
#43
Vince Klortho said:
I have heard it. It is actually in the range where it is more tactile than audible. You can feel it when it is done well.

A friend designed and built some cabinets with their -3db point tuned to 30Hz and loaded them with two JBL 18s each. We verified them with three different RTA systems and they really did it. They were truly amazing. We sometimes used a DBX 120XP subharmonic synthesizer with them to get REALLY deep tones. This was in the early 90s and people loved them at raves with electronic music. I remember the first time we really let them loose at a show. We put on Korn's first album where Fieldy hits some B-string notes and they absolutely shook the entire building. It was so astonishing that people stopped their conversations in mid syllable because most had never heard or felt anything like it. It is a very vivid memory for me.

He built four of those cabinets for a PA system and they could fill a pretty good-sized room. After that system was retired I had one of the cabinets for my home theater and that was a lot of fun. I got the 120XP too. It could shake my house and the neighbor's. :)
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It's funny- hi-fi buffs have been having the same discussion for decades, but not pertaining to 30 Hz, but to 20, because traditionally, 20 to 20k has been considered the limits of human hearing.

Actually 30 Hz is really easy to hear. 20 Hz, not so much. You can certainly FEEL both of them, as you can with a well-reproduced 31 Hz which comes from certain 5-string instruments.

Why people would be so willing to give up that special tactile sensation is not for me to say, but maybe somebody can explain it to me.

Thanks,
Andy
 
#44
One Drop said:
Not everyone is trying to reproduce the full range of their instrument with their stage rig , whether it is for monitoring only or to carry a room.

It's the difference between MI and SR equipment to my mind, but for some people they have the same goals, for others not.

Also, Andy, I'm really confused that you say you cannot reproduce lows well will small drivers then you link an article that explains exactly how to do this. Please understand I'm not trying to argue for it's own sake, and that my understanding of acoustics and psychoacoustics is probably fractional compared to yours,and my experience is fairly limited, too. I'm just having trouble following your reasoning and discerning what your points are.
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No, the article says the Sweet Sixteen makes that claim. He dances around that, and prefers not to point out that the claim is false. Go back are read his carefully chosen words.

Trust me- those little midrange speakers do not reproduce low bass, and as I said in my other link, even the venerable Bose 901's only manage to do it with extreme equalization. (12 dB per octave below 96 Hz, as I recall, or 24 dB at 24 Hz, which would be 128 watts at that frequency to reach the level of 1 watt at 96 Hz. I'll leave the exact calculation of power boost at 31 to somebody else. It would be around 100 watts!)

What I HAVE learned from this thread, however, it that there are apparently plenty of bassists who don't really care about low bass anyway, which is both surprising to me, and which also explains how why and how people are willing to "make do" (thanks to NZ!) with loudspeakers which don't even pretend to be able to reproduce it! These aren't the bassists I hear from.

Thanks,
Andy
 
#45
I'm not surprised you hear from them, because you are known for creating cabs that do specifically that.

I love the sound of church organ and go to recitals when I can, but real lows like that don't interest me so much in most types of modern music, that I play and listen to.

For me the juice and interesting part of EB is the low mids and high bass. It's the voice I like and I find satisfying and plenty visceral as well. My tonal nirvana is unamplified DB, and the closer EB gets to it the happier I am, at least in general.

Call me nuts, but at least I know what I like!
 
#47
You can go down to 30hz all you want, but unless you're willing to spend lots of cash on a speaker system that does it well, why bother? When I master music, I cut anything below 40hz out with a -24dB slope on the hpf because it doesn't do anything good for the music in just about every case. When I record and mix music, I cut out bass guitars around 50 - 60hz at a -12dB slope because there's not a lot of useful stuff down below there from a bass guitar, just junk that obscures the actual note being played.

As for the OP, I used to own the PR410hlf and it only worked for me when I had an Ampeg head. Anything else I tried running through was just a mushy mess. Of course I didn't like the sound of the Ampeg head either, so both went away.

I would recommend the Eden XST that was mentioned before, or, what I'm using, which is a pair of b212s from Avatar. One of those cabs would be plenty with the WT800...
 
#48
TigerInATrance said:
You can go down to 30hz all you want, but unless you're willing to spend lots of cash on a speaker system that does it well, why bother? When I master music, I cut anything below 40hz out with a -24dB slope on the hpf because it doesn't do anything good for the music in just about every case.
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That's sort of like a painter saying, "I only use certain colors because shades of those colors are just too dark." Well, that's actually only specific to what you are painting. And the same goes for music, IMO.

I prefer to have my bass live in the lower frequencies of a mix, and in a dance band, with some serious bass-synth happening, that's sometimes way down in those lower frequencies so that it does some wall shaking.

Bass isn't only meant to be heard, but also to be felt. I guess I'm fortunate enough to work with sound engineers who have really good equipment FOH, because it's never been an issue for them to reproduce those lower frequencies.
 
#49
acmebass said:
Why people would be so willing to give up that special tactile sensation is not for me to say, but maybe somebody can explain it to me.
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It's all about compromise. People are willing to give up the thump in exchange for less expensive speakers, smaller amps, and less weight to haul.

The concept of return on investment also comes into play. Many people seem to think there is not an adequate ROI in being able to have physically thumping bass. While I really enjoy it, I tend to agree unless it is done really well and, unfortunately, it rarely is. Other than my friend's system, the last time I heard it done really well was at a Grateful Dead concert where they had an enormous stack of Meyer subs in a football stadium. The Phil-bombs were thumping very well that day. Definitely tactile !
 

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