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Double Bass What's going on here? (Brahms 1)

Mark_T

Mark_T

Aug 8, 2007
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1,483
Copenhagen, DK / Bellingham, WA
#1
We're preparing to play Brahms 1 in a few weeks. Over the weekend, our conductor sent me this link and asked me, "what the hell are the basses doing here"? It should be at about 2:12, which is right before rehearsal A in the first movement:



What's noted in those 2 bars (in all the parts I could get my hands on) are straight eighth notes on the low G (for people who haven't played Brahms 1 or haven't seen it in a while, it's in 6/8 time, in 6 here).

These guys are clearly working harder than that, but I can't quite tell what they're doing (or why). It sort of looks like they're turning the straight eighths into sixteenths, alternating between the noted G and the D a fifth above that. I think that's what I hear, too, but there's a lot going on for my ears to process.

Anyone seen anything like this before?
 
#2
They're playing octaves.

Brahms bass parts tend to get lightly re-orchestrated by players and conductors fairly often. The justification for changes is usually found in the composer's manuscript version for four hand piano. Invalid Link Removed that he wanted octave G's at this part, although I don't see any reason for 16ths as opposed to a simple divisi. The cello line is busy with the melody, so perhaps they figured a change in the bass part would be advantageous.

It sounds good, but from an academic standpoint it's a bit fishy.
 
#3
Actually, it looks to me like Brahms indicated octave G tremolo in the piano arrangement-very pianistic. In the orchestrated version, the timpani part has a roll and the bass part I have (O. Zimmerman) has basses playing G eighth notes. The octaves sound strange to me, having never heard it played like that. To my ears, it interrupts the inexorable build of the rest of the opening section. I'm sure Harnoncourt could make an academic case for the change somehow, though.

Oscar did recommend playing some notes on the extended E string when the shape of the line obviously wanted to go there.
 
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#5
Last season, we did Brahms 1, and our music director instructed half the basses to dig in and take all down bows, fortissimo, very marcato beneath the sustained timpani roll. He said the pulsation of the low notes is seldom heard in recordings and concert performances, so he wanted us to help it punch through. We played just the single Gs, however; nothing arpeggiated.
 
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#9
Ok, it's a matter of taste to a degree, but I don't think there's much doubt about what Brahms wrote and intended, and I don't think there's any excuse for the attitude that "it's more fun this way". If you want to play Brahms 1, it's all down on paper. Play it.
 
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#11
LouisF said:
Anyone have any opinions on the first 7 bars of the first movement? Separate the 6x C? Stay in one bow? Divide the section half and half?
Thanks
Louis
Click to expand...
Three instruments play that figure, the contrabassoon, basses and tympani. Tympani always wins, so I don't see any point in trying to add some sort of nuance by doing it in one bow. Every orchestra I've ever played this piece with or seen in concert has the basses playing separate notes.
 
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#12
neilG said:
Three instruments play that figure, the contrabassoon, basses and tympani. Tympani always wins, so I don't see any point in trying to add some sort of nuance by doing it in one bow. Every orchestra I've ever played this piece with or seen in concert has the basses playing separate notes.
Click to expand...

Agreed, and it’s hard to imagine keeping time properly by pulsing a single bow, it would likely drag, lose definition, or both.
 

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