Guys who act like this, telling others to switch gear and such, always SUCK at playing their respective instrument.
Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
What's his problem??
- Thread starter RonSound
- Start date
Unfortunately you have discovered Rule 1 of live sound:
If it sounds bad, it must be the bass player's fault.
If it sounds bad, it must be the bass player's fault.
your quote: "I told him I had no intention of going to a 4-10 and packed my stuff and went home."
Excellent!! He won't bother you anymore.
Excellent!! He won't bother you anymore.
Considering the wide variety of cabs an experienced sound man encounters throughout his career, this guy's request sounds a little goofy. He should be able to work around your preferred gear with perhaps some minimal concessions or adjustments on your part at the most.
Just get a clothes dryer or two.
FWIW, My policy has always been: I like my gear and the sound I get with my gear. If you don't like it, then fire me...
Switching to a 4x10 won't fix it- good 4x10's put out at least as much low end as 15" loaded cabs. Your soundman is probably laboring under the delusion that this isn't so. Also ignore such delusions as "15's throw further" etc. The solution lies elsewhere- probably in one of the above posts. Good luck.
As has been suggested above, 58's are the way to go. Bas is only directional up to a point and it'd have to be very loud or very close for a good vocal mic to pick it up. My guess is something else is going on. One of my band's soundguys told me he was having a problem with my sound and asked my nicely to adjust it. I did. After the show was over he told me he still had the same problem and noticed I wasn't playing. He found it in the keys.
He should look elswwhere for the problem.
He should look elswwhere for the problem.
jive1
Commercial User
vocal mics (SM58s and similar) don't pick up much below 200Hz.
...either he's talking rubbish, or your cab is kicking out something in the midrange that the mics are picking up.
i don't see how changing to a 410 will help much, if anything it might have a bigger mid-hump.
and as has been said, it's his job to position/EQ the mics correctly in any case
Changing to a 4x10 isn't probably going to change much. And that's what's prolly causing folks to think the guy is clueless. For all you know the problem may be with the resonance of the room.
A SM58 won't pick up much under 100Hz, but even notes above 100Hz can be bassy and add to the overall muddiness of the sound. And it all depends on the overall decibel level. A SM58 can pickup frequencies as low as 50Hz at -10 dB.
Yes, the left hand of the keyboard player. One of the most annoying things a bass player has to put up with.
Sounds like he's a crappy soundguy. If he can't properly mix your gear then he doesnt know what he's doing. If bass in the mics is a problem, and he can't position the mic better, then he should have you going direct out into the PA.
Wait wait wait wait... he's telling you that you need a new cab because yours puts too much bass into the vocal mics? And a new cab for you is his solution? Fire him, immediately. If youre near SoCal, hire me.
Is it possible he's just using the "your cab has too much bass" line to push you out of the band? It sounds like that could be the case, particularly when also looking as the content of his text: "we can't play in a band together and be friends." There appears to be some interpersonal drama going on here beyond loud bass cabinets. Just my take from the info you posted.
Now, neither as a sound guy, bass player and nor doing both simultaneously have I ever run into an issue with the bass cab putting to much bass into the vocal mics. There is usually a litany of crap going on a live stage a bit of low gack isn't gonna ruin the average club band's live sound.
If I'm way off about him wanting you out, then here are a couple of things that could be helpful:
If your guitarist/soundguy hasn't looked at a few of these possibilities yet then he should. Given the current dynamic between the two of you I'm not quite sure how you could be approach him about this, though. Good luck.
Now, neither as a sound guy, bass player and nor doing both simultaneously have I ever run into an issue with the bass cab putting to much bass into the vocal mics. There is usually a litany of crap going on a live stage a bit of low gack isn't gonna ruin the average club band's live sound.
If I'm way off about him wanting you out, then here are a couple of things that could be helpful:
- if the mixer has high pass filters on each channel they should be engaged on the vocal channels.
- the low EQ adjustment on the vocal channels should probably be set flat, or even cut slightly.
- does the PA system have subwoofers? If so, are they run off an auxiliary? An aux-fed sub setup would probably clean things up a bit.
- if the PA only has "top" cabs and no subs, then a high pass filter set at 80 or 100Hz might be in order to keep those cabs from trying to reproduce frequencies they may not be efficient at reproducing.
If your guitarist/soundguy hasn't looked at a few of these possibilities yet then he should. Given the current dynamic between the two of you I'm not quite sure how you could be approach him about this, though. Good luck.
What kinda music do you play?
Personally I like 10's because of the response and the punch/clarity at least in a rock setting...of course you can make 15's work for ya though.
Personally I like 10's because of the response and the punch/clarity at least in a rock setting...of course you can make 15's work for ya though.
vocal mics (SM58s and similar) don't pick up much below 200Hz.
...either he's talking rubbish, or your cab is kicking out something in the midrange that the mics are picking up.
i don't see how changing to a 410 will help much, if anything it might have a bigger mid-hump.
and as has been said, it's his job to position/EQ the mics correctly in any case
+1
The guy's a dick. He shouldn't be dictating your sound. Now, if you just had inferior equipment or something, then it might at least warrant a discussion. But from what you've described, I'm with you. I would have bitten his head off....
bigtiny
He sounds like a poser that is hiding his musical deficiencies behind gear nameplates.
If this is true, then it seems he's a control freak who drops musicians/friends who won't do what he tells them. He must think he's a General or a warden.
Good riddance. Move on.
With friends like him you don't need enemies.
Re: the mics
Sure Beta 58 mics may help: "Uniform supercardioid pattern for high gain before feedback and superior rejection of off–axis sound" From: http://www.shure.com/americas/products/microphones/beta/beta-58a-vocal-microphone
Also, if you can go wireless, you can get a listen FOH and help determine how your band sounds and if the sound person is correct in the assessment of the band's FOH sound.
+1 on the DI so you can use lower stage volume. Tilting the cab back will also get the sound in your ear much better requiring less volume.
