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Whats the latest with DP??

i can build you a guitar that looks the eiffel tower if you want but you wouldnt want me too. just because somebody will build whatever idea you have doesnt make it a good thing. a certain amount of woodworking talent and skill has to be involved. from what ive heard from people who's opinions i trust since they own or have owned the best of whats out there, the dp's arent that great.
 
narud, I agree totally. As with any other expert or consultant you go to him/her because they have specific skills as well as experience of what works or not.

I have no knowledge of this luthier, but I personally don't like the samples shown on the web site. If the basses are really cheap perhaps there is a case for buying from him during his learning years. But most likely I'd spend more money with someone who has proven concepts and a longer history of building quality instruments, I don't have money to spend on experiments.
 
i guess i'm not explaining my self correctly.. it wasn't an experiment, and i'd done some research before i ordered. i decided to go with a lesser known luthier that i thought could do what I WANTED, and be able to afford it. it was something too good to pass up, and i still think it was a damn good idea. yes, his woodworking is more than ok, and 10-1 says you (narud) have never even played a DP. it was a very cool bass, i can't stress that enough, until i had the problem arise a few months later.. the repair job was rock solid as hell too, but i wasn't happy with the tone of the massacar ebony as compared to the original pau ferro. quality? definitely... don't bass your opinions on my one issue. where are the other posts where people tell how much they hate their DP's? i haven't seen many, if one at all.. but, i could be wrong..
 
I think there are a few owners of DP's on talkbass that won't post their dislikes out of respect for Dave. I've spoken with several of them. I know quality. A friend of mine paid more than $1500 for his DP and was totally unhappy. The quality was horrible. There's a lot things one could buy with $1500.
 
i never said i did play one, but knowing scott (peter parker) who i bought my f bass from and who is a ken smith and fodera owner, when he says they suck, i listen. and when i see jeff rader(who owns sadowsky's and zons) say he had to get fret+nut work done and redo the finish, that doesnt speak much to the quality of dave's work either. then there was luis fabara's 6 string that turned out to be an utter piect of crap. then your fretboard issue. how many examples of his work do we need before everyone realizes that he might not have his stuff together yet. not saying he might not ever develop into a quality luthier, but from what i see now, your taking a crap shoot on one of his basses.
 
oh, i see.. i really wasn't aware that people were dissatisified. i see many bitch and gripe posts about different stuff on here, but not much about dave's stuff.... wasn't aware of Luis's problems either. i saw that jeff sold his. i was genuinely impressed with the bass when i first got it, and then i had the problem happen after a few months. it wasn't an immediate dislike.. mine wasn't anywhere near $1500, but i see your point. maybe his work won't get better, but whatever, it's spilled milk and i've got another bass coming. i'm sure peter parker & you know your stuff, i'm not gonna doubt that either.. i guess i'll wait to pass any more judgement until i get the new one..
 
If you go to Pushic's website and view the gallery, I own the third one down on the left. It has a lacewood top, bart pickups and gold hardware. I bought it used about 6 months ago from the original owner who had it built just about a year ago now.

Cosmetically, the finish is horrible, the routs for the pickups are crude, the glue joints are crude, the laminates in the body wings sit at an angle (not by design) and the fretboard is horrible. Furthermore, the neck carving is terrible (inconsistant) and the luthiers joint at the headstock is really crude, both visually and in feel.

I haven't decided what I am going to do with this thing. I could pull it apart, put a new fretboard on, re-carve to even out all the imperfections in the woodwork and then refinish it. It has great electronics and hardware, but it is CRUDE! On the other hand, I could resell it (or trade it) as is (it does sound really good).
 
Okay, one thing at a time.

First(either narud or Peter Parker), that mentioned the people owning Zons, Smiths, Foderas, and the such...since when does owning expensive basses give one more or less credibility? For one, I would think maybe they would be used to better quality($2000 and up basses:eek: ) basses and maybe not so tolerable of what a lot of us may be. That's just an opinion. I do appreciate the fact that some are trying to convey honest encounters here...it really helps us all.

Narud,
I understand your point about needing woodworking skills to actually build the Eifel Tower bass. Never went against that for a second. But for a minute, let's assume that Dave has these skills...now who else is going to build you that Eifel Tower bass as well?? Not everyone does things like that...and we all know there's people out there that will pay good money just to have something look different:rolleyes::D

However, for each person that comes through with a bad story there's another that is totatlly pleased with their bass. Just saying that their's two sides to a story. I do agree that there's a level of workmanship that just HAS to be there. Unfortunately without playing a DP yet, I can't really comment on whether it's there or not; some have said no, others have said yes...I'll see when my bass gets here.

And about Luis...the only problem I remember was him having some frets pop up. He was going to have his dad or someone bring it back to Dave to fix it. As I understood, Dave doesn't use glue under his frets and that bass was shipped to Brazil or somewhere down south:D Other than that, all I remember was Luis raving about how much he liked that bass. Was there more? If there wasn't, again this isn't exactly what I would call a recurring theme.

I don't wanna seem like I'm the defender of DPs here, I just have a vested interest in Dave turning out good product(having a bass built), which is why I've contacted almost all of you to talk further on the matter.

No flames intended here either; just trying to bring both sides to the table and piece this whole puzzle together.

Peace.

Alex
 
ok, luis' bass- frets popped up, horribly curved neck that the trussrod couldnt come near to straightening, cuts in the fingerboard from where dave missed the correct fret slot, general crude worksmanship. luis loved it so much he got his money back and got a warwick. thats a great testimonial.:rolleyes:

personally, even if there's two sides to the story, i dont care. i only value the customers opinion in this case. if its a p.o.s., what's dave going to do? defend his hardwork or say its a piece of garbage?

and sorry, but owning and playing quality basses gives their opinion more credibility as to what quality is.....at least to me. so some 17 year old kid who's never played an mtd,sadowsky,f bass,fodera,etc. comes on here and raves about how kewl his dp is. so what. in a lot of cases they dont have the experience or familiarity with a true high quality handmade piece to know what good is. and im supposed to value thier opinion as much as peter parker or jeff rader? sorry, not going to happen.

i can understand your vested interest in him turning out quality, but it seems as some people keep deluding themselves and turning a blind eye to this stuff hoping that he'll be able to turn all this pretty wood in to something he might not be capable of doing.
 
RedV, I believe Luis's bass had more wrong with it. If I remember correctly, the frets didn't just pop out but were not cut right and that underneath one you could see where Dave had cut the slot wrong but didn't bother to fill it and put a fret in anyway. The frets looked to be a fan fret type by accident. Just because I own some high end basses does not make me a snob. When I pay $1000 or more for an instrument, I expect the construction to be such that I wouldn't worry about the bass falling apart. Judging from what I have seen in person, I would have these concerns with a Pushic and it seems as though it has happened. I hope the bass he is building you turns out great. There's probably a 50/50 chance that it will.
 
My only suggestion is to get some kind of garuantee in writing about the quality of a custom instrument being built for you. If any builder is confident in the quality of his/her work they will stand behind it.

Because you can't go and play the instrument before you lay down your money, there should be some kind of backing on the quality of the product you are buying blindly.

Granted luthiers cannot garuantee the tone of the custom bass will match the sound in your head, they can garuantee the quality of the construction.

When building a bass with woods and a body style they might have not tested before they might not know what it will sound like. But they should know their instruments quality of construction and the playability of the finished product.

When buying anything sight unseen, always get it in writing that if you are not happy with the product you may return within a set time.

Darrin
 
Darrin - I would agree with your point as long as the instrument isn't incredibly unique or specialized. Otherwise, it would seem any luthier (or any other business owner, for that matter) that is confident in their ability and takes real pride in their work would offer a trial period.

Just seems like the right thing to do to me...

Jeff
 
What is all this mystique about hand-built guitars? So DP builds cheap, cruddy guitars just so the less affluent can own a hand-built? I'd much rather have a beautiful CNC-routed parts bass (like my Laklands) than a rough-hewn hand-built. For $1500, one can get a used Lakland Deluxe 55-94. Why take a chance on glue-filled fretboards? Maybe Dave should put in a few years as an apprentice at an established luthery. (I know, you're going to come back and tell me he worked for Vinnie Fodera for 15 years. It's the way things go for me.)
 
What I offer on the unique basses, like one with specialized inlays, etc. is if you're unhappy with the bass and want a refund I will send back 1/2 of the bass costs, then try to resell the bass to cover the other 1/2. Or if I can reuse the hardware on another customers bass I will refund the other half since the new customers deposit will cover the hardware. I then "would" (since this hasn't happened) have a nice bass to hang on the wall as art. :-)

I am not trying to sell my basses here (since I am not taking orders at all right now), just coming in as a custom builder letting you know what I think is fair for the customer.

Darrin
 
Hey Guys DR Burkowitz Here:

I've been watching this post and and received RedV's email and feel a need to chime in.

I am about as happy as Anyone could be with the bass. I had heard a few horror stories just before I got my bass, that had freaked me out. I found these horror stories to be either B.S. or someone who had a very early model DP Custom. As with anything the more you do it, the better you get at it.

My bass is exactly as I had ordered and hands down the best money I have ever spent on Music related gear. I am putting together the money right now to have Dave start another project for me. Don't let the reasonable price or a few smoke blowers fool you. This is a first class instrument, made by one hell of a guy, at a price this working stiff with kids can afford.

And just so you don't think that I'm a man without Standards, my other basses & gear include.

1997 Conklin Sidewinder 7 string Fretted - Will replace this one with my next DP Order
1989 Tobias Signature 6 Fretted - Keeping this bass for sentimental reasons
1983 Ibanez Musician Fretless - Keeping this bass for sentimental reasons

And Have sold These since receiving my DP Custom, just had zero need for them since getting the new bass:
1988 Warwick Thumb Bass Fretless
1994 Carvin LB76 Fretless

SWR SM-400 head
SWR Goliath II (x2)
SWR Henry 8x8
DBX 411 Compressor
Roland JC120 Chorus Unit

I've also been the proud owner of 1978 Jazz Bass, Spector USA 6 string, An Elrick 6 string Single Cut, 1979 Music Man, Warwick Dolphin Pro I, 1964 Jazz Bass, Fodera Monarch, Axtra custom 5.

I can honestly say that my new DP Custom 7 Fretless is on a level with most of these fine instruments. You have to take into consideration however that many times your trying to compare apples and oranges. These vintage Fenders or the Music Man, or Jeff Rader's Sadowsky's are all bolt on's and are just simply a different style of instrument. Every maker has their own style, and they put their own expertise and knowledge into the instruments they build. For Dave his engineering background has proved to be a valuable asset in my project.

In Peter Parker's case he dig's the Ken Smith Basses, I've played several, I borrowed one from my buddy that was in Cynic. Well made bass, but in my hands, to me, it felt sterile. Doesn't mean it wasn't great quality just wasn't for me. Kind of a similar thing with the fodera I owned. I know Peter has one as well. Great bass, but it felt like a flattened spector to me. I'm not slamming the bass. It just wasn't for me. I'm wondering if that is the case with some of these opinions?

In a private email Peter and I had spoken, and I respect his opinions and comments. However they are one mans opinions just as mine. I think that needs to be taken into consideration. I also spoke to Jeff Rader about his. Although he had some work done to make the bass more to his liking, he simply did not connect with the bass. That happens. We've all experienced it, it's something we all go through on our quest for perfect tone, feel, function. I find it in poor taste to anialate a builder that 1.) you haven't played or 2.) haven't worked with in problem solving in the event of a problem.

I'll concede the fact that DP Custom very well may have produced a bugger instrument. But meat & potatos of it is he offers a Lifetime Guarentee. If on the off chance something is not right call him and have it fixed. Seems pretty simple to me.

You also have to consider the amount of "seconds" other builders may experience. Talk to your favorite music store and ask about stock nightmares. i have yet to hear of a company with a ZERO bad prodcut rating.

Difference with DP Custom is it's one man, making basses by hand, on a customer based design, trying to interpet the customers wishes best any man can. In my case Dave hit the nail on the head. My bass is essentially perfect. It is the most "organic" feeling bass I have ever played, and since receiving it has been the only bass in my hands. It took about 24 hours to groove into it, and now it's as much an extension of my body as my legs are. it will not be long before DPCustom Basses are the only basses I play (gotta have that fretted 7 made).

about the website and photo's: He's a luthier and an engineer not ansel adams or a web developer. I prefer him that way. I have a photo shoot next week for my bands new album. I will make a point of having the photographer take some shots of my bass, and will post them here once I get them.

You can here a soundclip of my bass here:

http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/339/dimension_x_project.html

It's in the track "Why" about Halfway through the song. I will be able to send better soundclips of more fretless tracks as soon as mixdown is complete on the next 7 tunes. BTW both the Studio Engineer and the Mastering Engineer commented on the killer tone my bass produced. The Mastering Guy is a Virgin Records Employee as their mastering guy for Narada Records and has worked with Tony Levin, Trent Resoner, etc... Take into consideration however that you will be listening to a MP3 file.

In summary my bass is everything I had hoped for and more. If you've had a bum experience talk to Dave about it, I'm sure he can resolve the issue to your satisfaction. If you don't want be a swell guy and work with your luthier, then it's your own damn fault your unhappy:D


Best Wishes,
DR Burkowitz
 
First off I didnt mean to make this into a witchhunt, but on the other hand I think people are often too polite to say something negative about a nice a guy and supporting member.

But on the other hand we need to hear the complete raw, non-candy coated opinion and review. We need to review his bass' like we would any other, if it be a Sam Ash special or a Fodera.

How can we compare if all we hear is things like its good for its price or its price range, or minor problems. Things need to explained completely and openly not in a smoothed over generalization.

For the benefit for me and others considering getting a DP lets not PM or email and if possible lets hear from the "horses mounth"(where did that saying come from anyway?).
 
Originally posted by odie


But on the other hand we need to hear the complete raw, non-candy coated opinion and review. We need to review his bass' like we would any other, if it be a Sam Ash special or a Fodera.

Hey Odie,
Here are the questions posed to me by RedV and My responses. hope this helps


1.How would you describe your fretwork? Could you get low action without buzz? Were the frets smooth?

My bass was a 7 string Fretless, Dave's first 7 string actually.

2.How was the pickup routing? Were they straight?

The Pickup Routing was done well.

3.How was the nut cut? Did the strings seat properly?

The nut was well cut, strings seated fine, and still allows for proper response. Nut attachment was kinda quirky looking too me at first, However Dave explained his process to me, and it not only is stable but is also sonically "sound". My first impressions were cosmetic concerns, and those have now been put to rest.

4.How was the fretboard? Was it flush with the neck?

The Fretboard is PERFECT

5.How was the neck? The feel; was it wavy or smooth across?

The neck is smooth across, and EXACTLY as I had requested.

6.How was the finish? Rough spots, missed spots, etc.?

I ordered with Tung Oil, and upon first receiving seemed a bit sticky. Since then the finish has seemed to "cure" a bit further and the stickiness has disappeared there were a very few minor imperfections in the finish (3 small drips) (5 dust bunnies/hairs/fuzzies), all of which were solved in about 15 minutes and a little steel wool and 2000 grit paper. Also the bass smelled like hell first out of the bag, again this was a tung oil thing, the smell is now gone.

7.How was the overall fit? Did the different pieces come together flushly?

Perfect

8.How was the overall sound of the bass? From the electronics to tightness of B and high C strings?

Best Sounding Fretless bass I have EVER owned or played. From low B to High F it is flawless.

9.Overall fit and finish...1-10, 10 being the best.

I gotta give it a 9.5 The few things that didn't make it a 10 are. 1) there were a few small nicks in the edge of the fretboard. They were very small but still present. It took me about 15-20 minutes to sand them out as I slightly rounded the very edge of the fretboard. I could have sent it back to Dave to have him do it, but quite honestly it was so minor, and I didn't want to surrender the bass for even an afternoon. 2.) On the back of the headstock, on the players side there has been a cosmetic repair. It looks as if a piece of the purple heart had split off at some point during Buildup. Totally not a big deal, and it finishes fine on the edge but upon close inspection you can see the Hairline repair. It is completely sound, and stable merely a cosmetic bugger, and only upon close inspection.

If there are any other questions you can think of, or something else you would like to know. Let me know. I'm glad to be of assistance.

Best Wishes,
DR Burkowitz
 
Thanxs DR for the review and the details. My post after your first message wasnt directed to you but at the Talkbass crowd.
By the way its nice to hear from someone from Wisconsin and someone I may have seen at a Metalfest;). (Im originally from LaCrosse and Tomah)
 
"so some 17 year old kid who's never played an mtd,sadowsky,f bass,fodera,etc. comes on here and raves about how kewl his dp is."

uhh, narud, was this directed towards me?

17? no. not quite.

played all the basses you've mentioned? yes.

owned them? no, except MTD.

whatever. so my $1200 bass doesn't stand a chance to your $2500-$3900 bass....

hey DR, you took the words out of my mouth.. thanks..