my DP has also become a part of me. and my next bass will be another DP.
thats all I have to say about that.
thats all I have to say about that.
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Whats the latest with DP??
- Thread starter odie
- Start date
i currently have an order in with dave to build me a 5-string bass. before i put my order in, i contacted a lot of current dp owners. from what i've found, the majority of dp owners i've tracked down are extremely happy with their basses. i've also heard that dave's work has continued to improve with every bass that he builds.
everybody has a right to their opinion, but it seems like a lot of people judge dave's work by the poor pictures on his website.
i can't wait to have dave finish my bass. whenever you order a custom handbuilt instrument, there are always risks involved. there was a guy on the ctbasses.com a few months ago that posted that he had major problems with a carl thompson bass that he had owned.
i'll wait to make my decision on dave's work when i have my bass in my hands.
everybody has a right to their opinion, but it seems like a lot of people judge dave's work by the poor pictures on his website.
i can't wait to have dave finish my bass. whenever you order a custom handbuilt instrument, there are always risks involved. there was a guy on the ctbasses.com a few months ago that posted that he had major problems with a carl thompson bass that he had owned.
i'll wait to make my decision on dave's work when i have my bass in my hands.
I wasn't going to post this but what the hell.
My friend returned his bass and Dave didn't want to fix all the problems. Dave whined that for all the time he had already put into the bass he barely made minimum wage. What the hell kind of answer is that. There is no easy fix for my friends bass. He would have to build a new neck for it, which on a neckthrough would be difficult. For those of you who say that his work is getting better and that most complaints come from earlier work, this bass was finished in the last few months.
I'm glad that DR and others have gotten a great bass and that overall they had good experiences. But, considering what I've seen, I don't think its worth the risk.
My friend returned his bass and Dave didn't want to fix all the problems. Dave whined that for all the time he had already put into the bass he barely made minimum wage. What the hell kind of answer is that. There is no easy fix for my friends bass. He would have to build a new neck for it, which on a neckthrough would be difficult. For those of you who say that his work is getting better and that most complaints come from earlier work, this bass was finished in the last few months.
I'm glad that DR and others have gotten a great bass and that overall they had good experiences. But, considering what I've seen, I don't think its worth the risk.
Gus,
I think narud was just using the '17 year old' example as just that; and example.
What I meant was, sometimes we can be spoiled by what we have and something that's good enough for 85% of the world just won't do for us. Is that a little more clear? I had a rough night, you'll have to forgive me
Thanks DR for posting your comments.
I personally did contact most of the people in this thread and others that have DPs, and got good reports and bad...won't deny that. But it seemed for every bad report I got 3 great reports. I dunno, but that's my findings.
Peter,
I remember talking to you about the problems your friend had. I'm still sorry about that, I know that has to suck. I really wish Dave would catch this thread and come comment to us himself...horse's mouth and all
And thanks for the info on Luis..I had no idea. Does he still post here?? Haven't seen him in a while.
Well, guys, I'm off to more pressing matters(such as work
) Talk to ya later.
Peace.
Alex
I think narud was just using the '17 year old' example as just that; and example.
What I meant was, sometimes we can be spoiled by what we have and something that's good enough for 85% of the world just won't do for us. Is that a little more clear? I had a rough night, you'll have to forgive me
Thanks DR for posting your comments.
I personally did contact most of the people in this thread and others that have DPs, and got good reports and bad...won't deny that. But it seemed for every bad report I got 3 great reports. I dunno, but that's my findings.
Peter,
I remember talking to you about the problems your friend had. I'm still sorry about that, I know that has to suck. I really wish Dave would catch this thread and come comment to us himself...horse's mouth and all
And thanks for the info on Luis..I had no idea. Does he still post here?? Haven't seen him in a while.
Well, guys, I'm off to more pressing matters(such as work
) Talk to ya later.Peace.
Alex
DR Burkowitz Here again,
It sounds to me like as if we are all not going to agree on this issue. For me personally I will order another DP Custom (soon), For Peter Parker, sounds like he will never order one. Sounds ok by me - just all that much more time Dave has to work on my basses
As I read through this thread, I count 3 basses which people were dissatisfied with. And with that Someone bought Jeff's so it couldn't have sucked too bad. And as I read a recent post from P.P. Dave does indeed have his friends bass and is working on it so as I see it, and i may be wrong here. but Assuming Dave has only built 100 basses that's a noted 3% dissatisfaction rate. So where's the problem????? I would venture a guess that most manufactures, regardless of the product would kill for only a 3% failure rate. And to top and ice this cake, Dave has a lifetime guarentee, so in the event of an issue, return it, and have it fixed.
As a side note on this issue. Although I am a working stiff with a family, push comes to shove I can afford virtually any gear I want. I did not choose DP custom based upon price. I chose to work with Dave based upon my conversations with him, and examples of his existing work. I already own a Conklin 7 and was prepared for the Near $6,000.00 it would have taken to have Bill C. and company build my monster. I just felt a comfort level with Dave that I have not found in any other builder. And it wasn't that Bill C. wasn't ultra cool, because he's awesome, as is his work. It is impeccible. But I can honestly say that Dave comfortably holds his own with Conklin in my book. All my dealings with Dave have proven to me that Dave is a man of Character and Honor, if you have a problem or a question I recommend contacting him. In a world with bad manners and poor habits it's nice to do business with a skilled Gentlemen's Gentleman.
Best Wishes,
DR Burkowitz
It sounds to me like as if we are all not going to agree on this issue. For me personally I will order another DP Custom (soon), For Peter Parker, sounds like he will never order one. Sounds ok by me - just all that much more time Dave has to work on my basses
As I read through this thread, I count 3 basses which people were dissatisfied with. And with that Someone bought Jeff's so it couldn't have sucked too bad. And as I read a recent post from P.P. Dave does indeed have his friends bass and is working on it so as I see it, and i may be wrong here. but Assuming Dave has only built 100 basses that's a noted 3% dissatisfaction rate. So where's the problem????? I would venture a guess that most manufactures, regardless of the product would kill for only a 3% failure rate. And to top and ice this cake, Dave has a lifetime guarentee, so in the event of an issue, return it, and have it fixed.
As a side note on this issue. Although I am a working stiff with a family, push comes to shove I can afford virtually any gear I want. I did not choose DP custom based upon price. I chose to work with Dave based upon my conversations with him, and examples of his existing work. I already own a Conklin 7 and was prepared for the Near $6,000.00 it would have taken to have Bill C. and company build my monster. I just felt a comfort level with Dave that I have not found in any other builder. And it wasn't that Bill C. wasn't ultra cool, because he's awesome, as is his work. It is impeccible. But I can honestly say that Dave comfortably holds his own with Conklin in my book. All my dealings with Dave have proven to me that Dave is a man of Character and Honor, if you have a problem or a question I recommend contacting him. In a world with bad manners and poor habits it's nice to do business with a skilled Gentlemen's Gentleman.
Best Wishes,
DR Burkowitz
i definitely dont think being a customer should be a prerequisite for criticism. brad johnson has posted before that he hasnt liked every fodera he's played and some of them havent had punch. im a fodera owner and i think those opinions need to be out there whether or not he actually owns one or not. it might save someone some money from getting something theyre not going to like. i want to hear the gripes too, not just all the glowing reviews because that doesnt give a very accurate representation of someone's work.
and i also would feel much more comfortable of the 3% or whatever of daves basses that have problems, if they were little things like a cosmetic defect or something. but, the problems i hear like basses falling apart and him not being able to cut a straight line make me not want to take a chance.
and i also would feel much more comfortable of the 3% or whatever of daves basses that have problems, if they were little things like a cosmetic defect or something. but, the problems i hear like basses falling apart and him not being able to cut a straight line make me not want to take a chance.
It's cool that you feel that way narud, but now both sides are out there now. Everyone's free to decide.
No one's saying there haven't been problems, just that EVERYONE has problems.
Heck, I've played Smiths with VERY poor glue seems and fret slots cut too deeply. Does that make me qualified to bash the quality of ALL Smith basses? No. That's what Josh is getting at I think.
Well, whatever...life will go on and I too will have a DP in a couple months and will post a VERY thorough review with a LOT of pics. I'll be able to make up my mind then.
Peace.
Alex
No one's saying there haven't been problems, just that EVERYONE has problems.
Heck, I've played Smiths with VERY poor glue seems and fret slots cut too deeply. Does that make me qualified to bash the quality of ALL Smith basses? No. That's what Josh is getting at I think.
Well, whatever...life will go on and I too will have a DP in a couple months and will post a VERY thorough review with a LOT of pics. I'll be able to make up my mind then.
Peace.
Alex
These are near completion photos. their were a few additinos since these. Nonetheless they look pretty straight to me, bad photography and all
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
Best Wishes,
DR
Originally posted by narud
i definitely dont think being a customer should be a prerequisite for criticism. brad johnson has posted before that he hasnt liked every fodera he's played and some of them havent had punch. im a fodera owner and i think those opinions need to be out there whether or not he actually owns one or not. it might save someone some money from getting something theyre not going to like. i want to hear the gripes too, not just all the glowing reviews because that doesnt give a very accurate representation of someone's work.
I don't think you need to be a customer to critique gear, heck, what you find may be the reason you aren't a customer. I'd still consider buying a Fodera if the right one came along... and that's not Vinnie or Joe's fault, that's my personal preference.
I'd guess the difference between critiquing and bashing depends on what side of the fence you're on. I've seen DP's that look good in pics and some that seem to have issues that show up in the pics. You don't have to own a bass to see an alignment problem. Maybe better pics would help. You take all of this, including my opinions, with a grain of salt.
You can dismiss everything as bashing but you do that at your own peril. I've never met Jeff Rader but I respect his opinion based on what I've read by and from him. I don't think he's been anal about any issues found with his bass (he's been a real gentleman from what I've seen) and I think his taste and experience mirrors my own.
I still own a bass that Mike Tobias made back in 1978 and the construction, even by today's standard, is still top notch. Back then, when he was starting out, the price wasn't bad either. So, what should one expect at Dave's price point? That's the question.
and i also would feel much more comfortable of the 3% or whatever of daves basses that have problems, if they were little things like a cosmetic defect or something. but, the problems i hear like basses falling apart and him not being able to cut a straight line make me not want to take a chance.
I really don't get where this 3% comes from, sounds like seriously fuzzy math
Originally posted by Josh Walsh
First and foremost, Brad is always right.
Hardly... I just think I am
I think you can criticize anything you want, even after playing only one item. The thing you have to bear in mind are the circumstances. Getting a brand new instrument from a builder is not the same as buying a used bass that's been through who knows who's hands. I try to keep an open mind whenever I check anything out. Does it just need a setup? New strings? Minor maintainence? It should all come to bear when you make decisions on the quality and usefullness of gear. "Should".
Given that, with a new bass there are also certain standards that should be met.
Originally posted by Josh Walsh
And to DR - thanks, but do you mean me or the guy that plays guitar for the Eagles?
I meant you Josh, slip of the typing
to DR, Gusto, Mcracer, and Chump Stain: thanks guys for your very positive comments and continued support. You guys are the best customers an instrument maker could have
I'll continue to do my best not to disappoint you.
thanks especialy to DR Burkowitz for all the time you've spent here commenting.
to RedV: I've avoided coming here to respond "from the horse's mouth" as you say, because I didn't think doing so would do any real good, when innuendo, half-truths, exaggerations, and second hand hearsay are taken as fact and given as much credence as first hand reports from customers.
to "Peter Parker": Scott, you've made it clear in your past emails to me that you consider everything right about my basses to be solely the result of woods, pickups, and hardware; and anything wrong about them to be purely my fault. Your insistence on taking every opportunity to dis my work is tiresome and sad.
As to your "friend's" Bass: yes, it's very hard sometimes to live up to certain customer's sense of perfection. All makers run into customers like that now and then. His bass tho is not the basket case you represented here; in fact it's a very nice instrument. I am addressing the cosmetic issues he's raised. I note that he picked this instrument up in person, spending considerable time happily playing it before paying for it and taking it back home. So the issues he's since raised could not have been the big, obvious, disastrous ones you imply, or he wouldn't have done so. I note also that this customer has related to me in a recent email:
" I am reminded that I have also put my hands on some horrible worse than worse Fenders, Warwicks, Tobias', Ken Smiths', and some warped neck, high fret, badly planned Alembics, straight from their much lauded factories. So with that in mind I sincerely apologize to you."
I guess he has had problems with most makers.
to Narud: My basses don't fall apart. That's just PP's attempt to be clever in how he says things. And you are simply wrong about Luis' bass.
to barroso: I get at least one web designer a month trying to barter a free bass for web design services. Didn't know so many bassists worked in that field. I'll consider it when I'm not up to my ears in orders. (I've had a few offers of help from some very good people, including DR..thanks ) Seems my home-made design has been doing Ok so far.
to SMG: If the instrument was so bad, why has the original owner (who gave it up because he couldn't adjust to the number of strings) come back and asked me about making him another bass? You'd think that if it was absolute garbage, he wouldn't.
Thanks at least for admitting "it does sound good"
to D-Huff: I think your idea for implementing partial refunds is pretty good. Ill think about adopting something like it trouble is, as you very well know, customers who want a full refund seldom want to settle for less. And as you also undoubtedly have experienced, in unfortunately too many cases, a customer's "displeasure" with his custom made instrument is often directly proportional to his receipt of unexpected bills for a failed car transmission (true story) or other monetary problems (like a bank seizing his assets...another true one). Or he discovers that the very expensive combinations of ultra-exotic woods he insisted on aren't the Holy Grail of bassdom he thought they'd be. It's a hard business, as you know.
Two days ago I got the following from a recent customer:
"I went amp shopping today, took your guitar with me.... anyway, I played it side-by-side with a Warwick, etc., etc... it blew them all away. I am not into music stores, but I gave several your name today, as they wanted to know about you, your prices, etc. Hope you don't mind. I think they will be checking out your site. I still play my Modulus, but your guitar is my primary. Thanks
again."
It's feedback like this from customers that keeps me going.
Dave P.
I'll continue to do my best not to disappoint you.
thanks especialy to DR Burkowitz for all the time you've spent here commenting.
to RedV: I've avoided coming here to respond "from the horse's mouth" as you say, because I didn't think doing so would do any real good, when innuendo, half-truths, exaggerations, and second hand hearsay are taken as fact and given as much credence as first hand reports from customers.
to "Peter Parker": Scott, you've made it clear in your past emails to me that you consider everything right about my basses to be solely the result of woods, pickups, and hardware; and anything wrong about them to be purely my fault. Your insistence on taking every opportunity to dis my work is tiresome and sad.
As to your "friend's" Bass: yes, it's very hard sometimes to live up to certain customer's sense of perfection. All makers run into customers like that now and then. His bass tho is not the basket case you represented here; in fact it's a very nice instrument. I am addressing the cosmetic issues he's raised. I note that he picked this instrument up in person, spending considerable time happily playing it before paying for it and taking it back home. So the issues he's since raised could not have been the big, obvious, disastrous ones you imply, or he wouldn't have done so. I note also that this customer has related to me in a recent email:
" I am reminded that I have also put my hands on some horrible worse than worse Fenders, Warwicks, Tobias', Ken Smiths', and some warped neck, high fret, badly planned Alembics, straight from their much lauded factories. So with that in mind I sincerely apologize to you."
I guess he has had problems with most makers.
to Narud: My basses don't fall apart. That's just PP's attempt to be clever in how he says things. And you are simply wrong about Luis' bass.
to barroso: I get at least one web designer a month trying to barter a free bass for web design services. Didn't know so many bassists worked in that field. I'll consider it when I'm not up to my ears in orders. (I've had a few offers of help from some very good people, including DR..thanks ) Seems my home-made design has been doing Ok so far.
to SMG: If the instrument was so bad, why has the original owner (who gave it up because he couldn't adjust to the number of strings) come back and asked me about making him another bass? You'd think that if it was absolute garbage, he wouldn't.
Thanks at least for admitting "it does sound good" to D-Huff: I think your idea for implementing partial refunds is pretty good. Ill think about adopting something like it trouble is, as you very well know, customers who want a full refund seldom want to settle for less. And as you also undoubtedly have experienced, in unfortunately too many cases, a customer's "displeasure" with his custom made instrument is often directly proportional to his receipt of unexpected bills for a failed car transmission (true story) or other monetary problems (like a bank seizing his assets...another true one). Or he discovers that the very expensive combinations of ultra-exotic woods he insisted on aren't the Holy Grail of bassdom he thought they'd be. It's a hard business, as you know.
Two days ago I got the following from a recent customer:
"I went amp shopping today, took your guitar with me.... anyway, I played it side-by-side with a Warwick, etc., etc... it blew them all away. I am not into music stores, but I gave several your name today, as they wanted to know about you, your prices, etc. Hope you don't mind. I think they will be checking out your site. I still play my Modulus, but your guitar is my primary. Thanks
again."
It's feedback like this from customers that keeps me going.
Dave P.
ahh...dave's post is making me excited about getting my bass ehehe
Dave is a great guy, and I wish I could comment on his basses. But from what I hear they are wonderful. The majority of the attacks on dave that I see are coming from non-owners.. hmm
I say dont bash his work if you havent spent time with his instraments..and judgeing a bass by a pic is just...silly..
Dave please please invest in a new camera, your new instraments are simply amazing looking, and they shouldnt be represented with an outdated camera.
Dave is a great guy, and I wish I could comment on his basses. But from what I hear they are wonderful. The majority of the attacks on dave that I see are coming from non-owners.. hmm
I say dont bash his work if you havent spent time with his instraments..and judgeing a bass by a pic is just...silly..
Dave please please invest in a new camera, your new instraments are simply amazing looking, and they shouldnt be represented with an outdated camera.
So... it kinda sounds like you're suggesting that most if not all the issues that have been voiced are the customer's fault? I don't think that's entirely accurate.
I know you are capable of very good work. I've seen it. I also know you are capable of work that is not to your potential. I've seen that, too.
I'm just not sure you take ownership in that last point...
I also think you are in the best position to fix it. You do a great job communicating before the sale. I hope everyone who is waiting for their bass from you gets an instrument that is wonderful and exceeds their expectations. But it is not unreasonable to have questions or be a bit concerned.
Prove the concerns unfounded.
Jeff
I know you are capable of very good work. I've seen it. I also know you are capable of work that is not to your potential. I've seen that, too.
I'm just not sure you take ownership in that last point...
I also think you are in the best position to fix it. You do a great job communicating before the sale. I hope everyone who is waiting for their bass from you gets an instrument that is wonderful and exceeds their expectations. But it is not unreasonable to have questions or be a bit concerned.
Prove the concerns unfounded.
Jeff
Dave and to everyone, I have seen his work and what he built for my friend goes beyond cosmetic flaws to severe structual problems. Dave you say it's sad that I take every chance to attack you. If you do a search you will discover probably 50 or more threads about your basses. You will also find that I was only involved in maybe 2 of them including this one. That hardly seems like I'm going after you. My friend first took his bass to another luthier who laughed at your work. My friend brought his bass by the day he got it and was pissed. I looked at it and felt bad because I told him of you in the first place.
I considered being a DP owner until I saw his work. Does that mean since I didn't buy one of his basses that I have no right to comment? I truly want Dave to build better basses. I think the people who've paid their money deserve it. I also think that only when confronted with the reality of his ability will he be able to improve. If we keep blowing smoke up his ass then he has no reason to get better. Besides what I've witnessed and posted here, there are enough negatives posted by DP owners to at least let people know what they might be getting into. That's what a public forum like this is good for. You have to take the good with the bad. Ken Smith took a beating here awhile back. I find him to be a jerk most of the time but I still own one of his basses. I'm not trying to stop anyone from buying a DP. It's not my money and I don't have to play it. But I find negative comments if they are true much more valuable to the buyer and builder than positive. So I say, suck it up Dave. Get better and prove the negatives wrong. AS big as the web is, you're not just a small time builder from Mathews, NC anymore. Your potential customer base is huge now and you can't afford to build a bad bass and hope that it slips through the cracks.
- Aug 13, 2000
- 2,016
- 19
- 46
- Disclosures
- Audio Pro - Ecuador
Hello!
First, I havent been around because Ive been busy recording our first CD, thats why.
I was passing by and I couldnt avoid to see this thread.
Im here not to bash Dave´s work, but to set the record straight.
I indeed liked many things about the bass that Dave made for me, the thing is that I believe David couldnt put many of his efforts in it due to personal problems. (Hey, he even cut his finger making mine) but the problems that It had when it got here, indeed were not minimal.
The thing about the "fanned" fret is close to the truth, the fourth fret was missaligned, the bridge was too.
The wood work was fine in my apreciation, but the fingerboard was just not what I need in a bass.
The sound though, was extremely good.
There were some bumps here and there behind the neck, nothing that couldnt have been fixed, but the fingerboard had to be replaced.
The inlay work needed more experience, as I believe that "filling the holes" with wood putty isnt what I like. A broken inlay to me, is a wasted one.
I did get a Warwick 6 string, wich in time presented a couple of problems in the neck. I replaced the neck with a new one that Dana B. Goods sent me.
I dont believe that my DP bass had any structural problems at all.
Many of the things that made me boom at that time, is that I had put some effort thinking on it, and that I had to rewire the pickups to work (With Dave making the proper diagrams), as Bartolini had sent a wrong diagram to Dave and he didnt have enough time to test it before shipping.
Sad is that I had to ask Dave to refund my money, It was a hard decision, but being so far away (ECUADOR) it would have costed a lot more to send it back and forth until it was perfect.
There were some cosmetic flaws, but those are expected. The truth is that Dave´s work is not in the same league as many of the High end makers, but Im not saying this regarding the money, but mostly because everything is made by hand by Dave only, and that could lead to many imperfections, that to be cured the Instrument Must cost more because materials and time cost a lot.
I believe that Dave´s work could get very good, if he pays more attention to details, gives more time to check everything and to have some players test the bass before shipping.
What Dave is missing is a fine quality control procedure that must not be performed by himself, but by someone else that could critizise his work.
I guess thats all.
I will be around if anything is needed to know.
And I do not agree with Peter Parker about the structural problems, and that Dave´s work is crap.
Its certainly not crap, but to some players CNC and serial made basses have less imperfections that would lead to a better satistaction for your money.
First, I havent been around because Ive been busy recording our first CD, thats why.
I was passing by and I couldnt avoid to see this thread.
Im here not to bash Dave´s work, but to set the record straight.
I indeed liked many things about the bass that Dave made for me, the thing is that I believe David couldnt put many of his efforts in it due to personal problems. (Hey, he even cut his finger making mine) but the problems that It had when it got here, indeed were not minimal.
The thing about the "fanned" fret is close to the truth, the fourth fret was missaligned, the bridge was too.
The wood work was fine in my apreciation, but the fingerboard was just not what I need in a bass.
The sound though, was extremely good.
There were some bumps here and there behind the neck, nothing that couldnt have been fixed, but the fingerboard had to be replaced.
The inlay work needed more experience, as I believe that "filling the holes" with wood putty isnt what I like. A broken inlay to me, is a wasted one.
I did get a Warwick 6 string, wich in time presented a couple of problems in the neck. I replaced the neck with a new one that Dana B. Goods sent me.
I dont believe that my DP bass had any structural problems at all.
Many of the things that made me boom at that time, is that I had put some effort thinking on it, and that I had to rewire the pickups to work (With Dave making the proper diagrams), as Bartolini had sent a wrong diagram to Dave and he didnt have enough time to test it before shipping.
Sad is that I had to ask Dave to refund my money, It was a hard decision, but being so far away (ECUADOR) it would have costed a lot more to send it back and forth until it was perfect.
There were some cosmetic flaws, but those are expected. The truth is that Dave´s work is not in the same league as many of the High end makers, but Im not saying this regarding the money, but mostly because everything is made by hand by Dave only, and that could lead to many imperfections, that to be cured the Instrument Must cost more because materials and time cost a lot.
I believe that Dave´s work could get very good, if he pays more attention to details, gives more time to check everything and to have some players test the bass before shipping.
What Dave is missing is a fine quality control procedure that must not be performed by himself, but by someone else that could critizise his work.
I guess thats all.
I will be around if anything is needed to know.
And I do not agree with Peter Parker about the structural problems, and that Dave´s work is crap.
Its certainly not crap, but to some players CNC and serial made basses have less imperfections that would lead to a better satistaction for your money.
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Brand new EBMM Stingray with very unleveled frets from the factory- Latest: MIJ Fender Guy
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