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What's up with singers these days?

#41
You can say it's unprofessional, but with very few exceptions the guys reading for their gigs are getting *far* more money.

I played two weeks ago for an American Idol finalist, an America's Got Talent finalist, and a great local entertainer. We had cheat sheets (mine on iPad), and I made a week's worth of cash off one gig. Do that in a bar...
 
#42
Pacman said:
You can say it's unprofessional, but with very few exceptions the guys reading for their gigs are getting *far* more money.

I played two weeks ago for an American Idol finalist, an America's Got Talent finalist, and a great local entertainer. We had cheat sheets (mine on iPad), and I made a week's worth of cash off one gig. Do that in a bar...
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Again, that's definitely not the kind of gig or player I'm talking about. In fact, I'd agree that using cheat sheets in that kind of situation is acceptable, if not 100% expected.
 
#43
jmattbassplaya said:
Again, that's definitely not the kind of gig or player I'm talking about. In fact, I'd agree that using cheat sheets in that kind of situation is acceptable, if not 100% expected.
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I guess I don't see the difference (the audience sure didn't know we'd never played together before). We still had to entertain, and nail the material. And I'll tell you what, I'd rather hear guys reading music nail music, than see a bunch of guys blow it and be interacting with the audience...

I've seen Sting a few times - he's got a music stand on stage with him, and he WROTE the stuff! Sounded great to me....
 
#44
Hell, these late-night hosts (HUGE money) telling a handful of jokes have these bigass cue cards, and often refer to them and show them on TV.

It’s just not an issue anymore. It’s about the performance, not the silly “skill” involved in memorization.

There’s a wise saying “The pen is for remembering, the brain is for thinking”. I’ve never seen a guy who can memorize seventy songs as more intelligent than anyone else… it just tells me that maybe they don’t have much of a life otherwise.

Spellcheck, calculators, teleprompters, CNC machines, google…

Get with the times.

;)
 
#45
Marko5657 said:
Hell, these late-night hosts (HUGE money) telling a handful of jokes have these bigass cue cards, and often refer to them and show them on TV.

;)
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I've been visiting Hulu.com for some "free" TV, (been without a TV at home for 4+ years), and recently started watching Leno again to get acquainted with his new music director and lead musician -- Rickey Minor - bass player by the way. If I recall watching recent episodes from last week, every musician has sheet music. The show rages on.

But in this case, the musicians don't have to carry the visual entertainment. Leno does.

But that gig would be a dream for me. Sightreading and playing new stuff every single day, for pay...
 
#48
Marko5657 said:
Opinion, we all have them,

but for your own credibility, don’t use the word “professional” if you don’t know what it means.

It just makes you look foolish.
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Well the way I see it (personal opinion only) if you are on stage with a band using music stands and/or cheat sheets

you are unprofessional.......that's what separates the pros from the wannabees


I will not play with those who need sheets anymore, I call them amateurs....sorry but it's true...if you can memorize the show, I don't want you..........it's simple as that.......to me it separates the pros from the hacks.
 
#49
Pacman said:
I guess I don't see the difference (the audience sure didn't know we'd never played together before). We still had to entertain, and nail the material. And I'll tell you what, I'd rather hear guys reading music nail music, than see a bunch of guys blow it and be interacting with the audience...

I've seen Sting a few times - he's got a music stand on stage with him, and he WROTE the stuff! Sounded great to me....
Click to expand...

I wouldn't want to see a band that messes up their material constantly, but if given the choice between seeing a band that gets on stage, rocks out, but makes a few tiny mistakes vs. seeing a band that gets on stage, play everything perfectly, but is stuck reading sheet music the entire time and never engages the audience, I'd choose the former every single time.

And if they have sheet music on stage they better sound great!
 
#50
Muzoid said:
if you are on stage with a band using music stands and/or cheat sheets

you are unprofessional.......that's what separates the pros from the wannabees
Click to expand...

I've done a bunch of good paying gigs over the years where I simply didn't have the time to memorize everything on a particular set list and used charts of some sort (often Nashville numbers) to get through the night cleanly. Pros use charts. Don't be too quick to judge who's using a chart as a tool vs who's using a chart as a crutch.
 
#51
jmattbassplaya said:
I wouldn't want to see a band that messes up their material constantly, but if given the choice between seeing a band that gets on stage, rocks out, but makes a few tiny mistakes vs. seeing a band that gets on stage, play everything perfectly, but is stuck reading sheet music the entire time and never engages the audience, I'd choose the former every single time.

And if they have sheet music on stage they better sound great!
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Three points perfectly made. If I prefer perfection over the liveness of the gig, then I can put on a CD. Doesn't mean I don't appreciate perfection from live performances, but losing the chairs and music stands lessens the distance between performer and audience.
 
#52
jeff arddun said:
I've done a bunch of good paying gigs over the years where I simply didn't have the time to memorize everything on a particular set list and used charts of some sort (often Nashville numbers) to get through the night cleanly. Pros use charts. Don't be too quick to judge who's using a chart as a tool vs who's using a chart as a crutch.
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Depends on the pros you're looking at.....ya if you play bass on the TV show Hee Haw, you might need charts (I wouldn't) if you were in a studio where no one is watching....that's ok by me.

Define "Good paying Gigs"
 
#53
Depends on what kind of gig it is. I've filled in with bands that did 4 hour sets an had a repertoire of over 200 songs. For those you'll definitely see me with charts, although I try to keep them somewhere discreet, maybe behind one of the mains.

If it's a rock covers band that does 3 45 minute sets and knows maybe 75 songs, there's really no excuse. If I'm subbing for a group like that I'll allow myself one cheat sheet on the floor where nobody can see it. I did a gig like that this weekend, I had 3/4 of a sheet of paper covered out of about 100 songs I was asked to know. Most of them were due to key changes that were a little odd (E -> C#) or arrangement changes and medleys.
 
#54
Muzoid said:
Depends on the pros you're looking at.....ya if you play bass on the TV show Hee Haw, you might need charts (I wouldn't) if you were in a studio where no one is watching....that's ok by me.

Define "Good paying Gigs"
Click to expand...

I must be crazy to buy into another stupid pissing match...
Does $600 for three sets of R&B or $450 for two sets of jazz standards with a good singer meet your definition of good paying? How about a $1200 new year's gig playing everything from classic rock to show tunes with four or five different singers?

You say you wouldn't need a chart for a TV show? If you'd gotten the kids off to school, taught a lesson, done a jingle session and then walked onto the sound stage a couple of hours before air to play music you'd never heard before you would in fact use a chart. Your fantasy idea of what's pro and what isn't is almost amusing.
 
#55
Sorry but I pride myself on the fact that I never need sheets

I've played with GOWAN, David Wilcox, Anne Murray, Lisa Del Bello, Hagood Hardy, Tommy Abrose, Mo Kaufmann, Glenn Gould.....and if I showed up with sheets, my ass would be on a street corner..

Pros play without charts (live).... amateurs use them.....boom!
 
#56
Muzoid said:
Sorry but I pride myself on the fact that I never need sheets

I've played with GOWAN, David Wilcox, Anne Murray, Lisa Del Bello, Hagood Hardy, Tommy Abrose, Mo Kaufmann, Glenn Gould.....and if I showed up with sheets, my ass would be on a street corner..

Pros play without charts.... amateurs use them.....boom!
Click to expand...

To steal Ed Fuqua's line: Have a blessed day.
 
#58
Depends on the gig. With a jazz combo, I'd have my fake books along on a short stand, but I'd only glance at them every once in awhile. For an orchestral gig, absolutely using a folder with the music in it, but that's the convention there. It doesn't mean my eyes are glued to it. For my regular gig, we are memorized and performing the pieces out and out. For a pop gig, no way. Looks like crap otherwise. That business needs to be memorized, and mega-performed. You have to be delivering the words in that situation, really embodying them.
 

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