What's up with singers these days?

[Akami]

Teleprompters are easy to make look like a monitor wedge and more major arena acts use them than not. My dayjob is as a stagehand and I see it regularly.

There are a lot of differences between using a teleprompter to assure that you've got the lines there when you drop the start of a line. This whole thread is about singers that won't learn the songs.

Mick Jagger and everyone in the Eagles knows their lyrics but keep the odds in their favor. It's not like they're too lazy to learn the lyrics.

I've wanted to be able to do this for years and have been thinking of getting an electronic book to hold all my lyrics.

 

[Pacman]

There are a lot of differences between using a teleprompter to assure that you've got the lines there when you drop the start of a line. This whole thread is about singers that won't learn the songs.

Mick Jagger and everyone in the Eagles knows their lyrics but keep the odds in their favor. It's not like they're too lazy to learn the lyrics.

I've wanted to be able to do this for years and have been thinking of getting an electronic book to hold all my lyrics.

The only difference is one costs more. The teleprompter has the lyrics on it, so do the lyric sheets. Care to explain how that's different?

 

[anonymous122511]

There are a lot of differences between using a teleprompter to assure that you've got the lines there when you drop the start of a line. This whole thread is about singers that won't learn the songs.

Mick Jagger and everyone in the Eagles knows their lyrics but keep the odds in their favor. It's not like they're too lazy to learn the lyrics.

Basically it sounds like you're willing to cut Mick Jagger slack for not knowing his parts when you won't cut that same slack for some shmo in a bar band. You either know the part or you don't, right?

 

[Akami]

The only difference is one costs more. The teleprompter has the lyrics on it, so do the lyric sheets. Care to explain how that's different?

Basically it sounds like you're willing to cut Mick Jagger slack for not knowing his parts when you won't cut that same slack for some shmo in a bar band. You either know the part or you don't, right?

I don't know if you guys sing but I do and sometimes it's helpful to have a prompter there. Not much of a Stones fan but I'm sure that Jagger knows the songs and keeps it there just for those brain fart times.

It appears that you guys are all for having a music stand in front of the singer and others of us aren't. We won't change yours and you won't change ours but don't pretend you can't understand the difference between having a prompter that that audience can't see and is used sporadically from a music stand that the singers eyes never leave.

That's the take of the OP and a few others here, myself included. Now how about some slack for us?

 

[Pacman]

I don't know if you guys sing but I do and sometimes it's helpful to have a prompter there. Not much of a Stones fan but I'm sure that Jagger knows the songs and keeps it there just for those brain fart times.

I do sing, and I do understand that. The OP was complaining that singers had cheat sheets in front of them. The teleprompter is a big, expensive cheat sheet. Bar bands can't afford them. Other than that, there's no difference - you're willing to give the guys who wrote the songs slack when it comes to having lyrics in front of them, but the average joe/jane in a bar doesn't deserve that from you.

It appears that you guys are all for having a music stand in front of the singer and others of us aren't. We won't change yours and you won't change ours but don't pretend you can't understand the difference between having a prompter that that audience can't see and is used sporadically from a music stand that the singers eyes never leave.

Show me where the OP said the singers eyes never left their cheat sheets? hmmm?

 

[Sonicfrog]

I don't use music stands on stage for two reasons.

1) My bass lines often act as a reminder of the lyric I'm supposed to sing.... Usually*.

2) I'm so freaking blind... i couldn't read it anyway!!!!

*I have been doing "Jenny Jenny" for God knows how many years, yet, lately, I've been mixing up the lyrics something awful! Have no idea why... Just happens.

 

[Akami]

you're willing to give the guys who wrote the songs slack when it comes to having lyrics in front of them, but the average joe/jane in a bar doesn't deserve that from you.

Nope.

I'm willing to cut slack to any living/breathing/working soul, but I think there should be effort taken on the part of anyone who wants to hold the center stage to memorize their lines.

Don't see any problem with having lyrics visible to the singer alone, but do have a problem with lyric stands in front of them, particularly if they can't do without.

If the Eagles and Stones were staring at the lyrics the whole time they were singing I doubt that it would be long before a thread got opened on that alone.

 

[Stumbo]

If the Eagles and Stones were staring at the lyrics the whole time they were singing I doubt that it would be long before a thread got opened on that alone.

Lots of famous bands/musicians use teleprompters for lyrics.

Guess it really doesn't matter that much after all.

 

[jmattbassplaya]

I don't see your point Pacman. You seem to be arguing for the sake of arguing because you think cheat sheets are always appropriate. There is a huge difference between you doing an American Idol gig without rehearsal and using a prompt when you're not even the main act (ie, the American Idol contestant - heck, you never even see the band on the show!), and when you're a band in a bar who's up close and personal with a crowd. Heck, I'd say there's a big difference between a band on a huge festival styled stage and a bar band. One is up close and personal, and the other is completely unattached from the crowd.

But perhaps you're right and they don't matter. That's why the crowds at the shows where the bands obviously use cheat sheets are barely up and moving (even if the music is solid), whereas the crowds for bands who don't use the sheets are getting rowdy as heck. But hey, this is all IME (YMMV).

 

[Akami]

Lots of famous bands/musicians use teleprompters for lyrics.

Guess it really doesn't matter that much after all.

Yeah, someone else pointed that out that fact, which is unrelated to this thread anyway.

You guys that don't get the difference between a quick peek at a screen the audience doesn't see and a music stand in front of the lead singer don't sound very stage conscious, but then you're free to run your band as you like.

 

[anonymous122511]

You guys that don't get the difference between a quick peek at a screen the audience doesn't see and a music stand in front of the lead singer don't sound very stage conscious, but then you're free to run your band as you like.

You're making some big assumptions. Like I said I'm a longtime stagehand and I've seen big arena acts like U2, Van Halen and Ozzie utterly flail. Your logic just doesn't match the reality of why people use prompters or the page.

 

[Akami]

You're making some big assumptions. Like I said I'm a longtime stagehand and I've seen big arena acts like U2, Van Halen and Ozzie utterly flail. Your logic just doesn't match the reality of why people use prompters or the page.

What assumptions am I making. As opposed to being a stagehand, I'm a singer and understand what it is to sing for hours on end without any lyrics in front of me, so go ahead and teach me the faults of my ways.

 

[jmattbassplaya]

What assumptions am I making. As opposed to being a stagehand, I'm a singer and understand what it is to sing for hours on end without any lyrics in front of me, so go ahead and teach me the faults of my ways.

There's really none. Some people can sing without a crutch, some can do it but use a crutch just in case, some can do it but are too lazy so they use a crutch all the time (which is what I think the people my OP was about are), and some people just can't do it and need the crutch. None of them are right or wrong, but I do think not using them or barely using them does make a bar band stand out a lot more and makes their show 'better' than the bands that do use them.

 

[Major Softie]

Choirs were mentioned earlier. Choirs are 95% about the sound, and they are all volunteers. I, and most of their audience, don't care if they have music in front of them.

For most bands, most of the band is at least 75% there to produce sound. Anything that takes away from their visual performance is a negative, but how big a negative varies tremendously depending on the style of the performance.

The Front Man (or Woman) is there to perform. The singing is important, but a mediocre voice in a spectacular performer absolutely annihilates a spectacular voice in a mediocre performer every time. Anything that takes away from the ability of the front man to engage with the audience is 100 times more devastating to the performance than the same thing from any other member of the band.

While I would have to guess that Mick's performance may be negatively impacted by the need to have that teleprompter, it wouldn't be as negative as him blowing the song. Regardless, he is a performer of legendary proportions, and would still be delivering a magnificent performance (even if it might not be quite what he could accomplish when younger).

A Front Man tied to a music stand is completely different. If they were using for more than occasional reference, so that it was noticeably impacting the performance, I'd be out the door. They are not there to sing; they are there to perform.

 

[Fassa Albrecht]

Nope.

I'm willing to cut slack to any living/breathing/working soul, but I think there should be effort taken on the part of anyone who wants to hold the center stage to memorize their lines.

I've been in band situations where the band repertoire is something like 300+ songs. In these situations cheatsheets and notes were the norm. You'd have to be hyper-mnenomic or very bored to memorize that amount of lyrics.

This was true particularly of church bands which could draw on thousands of songs and then have to learn then in short periods of time (sometimes I only had 30min to learn a song during band, then I'd have to play it infront of an audience in church). As a result music stands and cheat sheets were pretty much the norm.

Don't see any problem with having lyrics visible to the singer alone, but do have a problem with lyric stands in front of them, particularly if they can't do without.

A friend of mine is a singing teacher and one of the things she teaches is singing without lyrics in front of you, a decently basic skill for exam-grade singing. Anyone who can't remember lyrics decently will never pass even their Grade 1 Singing Exam.

If the Eagles and Stones were staring at the lyrics the whole time they were singing I doubt that it would be long before a thread got opened on that alone.

Difference is that they're playing well-known material and being paid millions for it. They've also got the benefit of weeks of practice time before touring to get it right.

And bear in mind even famous bands can forget the lyrics- I've seen a clip of Geddy Lee forgetting the words to Tom Sawyer before now.

 

[Akami]

There's really none. Some people can sing without a crutch, some can do it but use a crutch just in case, some can do it but are too lazy so they use a crutch all the time (which is what I think the people my OP was about are), and some people just can't do it and need the crutch. None of them are right or wrong, but I do think not using them or barely using them does make a bar band stand out a lot more and makes their show 'better' than the bands that do use them.

I think we're pretty much on the same page, and without the need for a stand even!
Maybe you're just better at putting it into words than I am.

I've been in band situations where the band repertoire is something like 300+ songs. In these situations cheatsheets and notes were the norm. You'd have to be hyper-mnenomic or very bored to memorize that amount of lyrics.

Difference is that they're playing well-known material and being paid millions for it. They've also got the benefit of weeks of practice time before touring to get it right.

And bear in mind even famous bands can forget the lyrics- I've seen a clip of Geddy Lee forgetting the words to Tom Sawyer before now.

I used to sing with a girl with the talent you're talking about and one of my friends can usually give you the full lyrics to songs he doesn't even sing, but as you say, they're pretty rare.

Personally I don't think a band should be messing up their own material, particularly if they're playing stadiums, but if the lyrics are running down below as a helper, fine with me - just keep the audience feeling your attention.

I bet everyone forgets lyrics, and like you said about Tom Sawyer, doesn't it always seem to be the ones that are too easy to forget, that you actually do forget! That's how it is with me anyway.

 

[Sonicfrog]

....some can do it but are too lazy so they use a crutch all the time....

Gee... You assume laziness when that may not be the case at all. What if they just have a hard time remembering? I have a great "radio memory" as far as music goes. If I've heard the song a few times, then I can usually play it pretty accurately. I've been on stage and play songs that I've never even practiced at all simply because I can hear the song in detail in my head. I sometimes get annoyed that others that I work with don't have the same ability. Right now, we're adding Toto's "Hold The Line" to the set list. The keyboard player, a fine musician in her own right, has been having a time of it getting her parts right. I get a little annoyed, but very much keep it to myself, because I understand that I've heard the song many more times than she has, and I have an extra ability in this regard that she doesn't seem to.

Some people have memories like that for lyrics too. I've worked with guys and girls who could look at a lyric twice, and then remember it almost perfectly from then on. As far as lyrics go, I, regrettably, am not one of those persons. I very much wish i had the same gift with lyrics that I do with music... But I don't. There are time where I should use cheat sheets on stage, but I don't because I have a very difficult time reading them while playing.

For some, yes, it may be laziness... For others, it may be a crutch to get over the nervousness of being on stage, or simply that they don't have very good lyric recall. Don't automatically assume it's laziness.

PS. We will be performing "Hold The Line" for the first time live at a party this week end. I will almost certainly have my cheat sheet for that in front of me.

PPS. Fassa... How ya been!

 

[Fassa Albrecht]

I used to sing with a girl with the talent you're talking about and one of my friends can usually give you the full lyrics to songs he doesn't even sing, but as you say, they're pretty rare.

I'm decent with lyrics to the extent I can get the rhythm and most of the lyrics within a couple of listens of a song. But yes, people with instant lyrical recall are rare.

Personally I don't think a band should be messing up their own material, particularly if they're playing stadiums, but if the lyrics are running down below as a helper, fine with me - just keep the audience feeling your attention.

I bet everyone forgets lyrics, and like you said about Tom Sawyer, doesn't it always seem to be the ones that are too easy to forget, that you actually do forget! That's how it is with me anyway.

Lawlz....yeah, it's usually the more well-known songs which tend to go wrong.

Usually by the time you've got to stadium tours things like fatigue and jet-lag likely play their part. I've read Geddy Lee interviews where he freely admits to being completely and utterly exhausted after tours.

Gee... You assume laziness when that may not be the case at all. What if they just have a hard time remembering? I have a great "radio memory" as far as music goes. If I've heard the song a few times, then I can usually play it pretty accurately. I've been on stage and play songs that I've never even practiced at all simply because I can hear the song in detail in my head. I sometimes get annoyed that others that I work with don't have the same ability. Right now, we're adding Toto's "Hold The Line" to the set list. The keyboard player, a fine musician in her own right, has been having a time of it getting her parts right. I get a little annoyed, but very much keep it to myself, because I understand that I've heard the song many more times than she has, and I have an extra ability in this regard that she doesn't seem to.

Some people have memories like that for lyrics too. I've worked with guys and girls who could look at a lyric twice, and then remember it almost perfectly from then on. As far as lyrics go, I, regrettably, am not one of those persons. I very much wish i had the same gift with lyrics that I do with music... But I don't. There are time where I should use cheat sheets on stage, but I don't because I have a very difficult time reading them while playing.

For some, yes, it may be laziness... For others, it may be a crutch to get over the nervousness of being on stage, or simply that they don't have very good lyric recall. Don't automatically assume it's laziness.

PS. We will be performing "Hold The Line" for the first time live at a party this week end. I will almost certainly have my cheat sheet for that in front of me.

Quoted for truth.

PPS. Fassa... How ya been!

Good evening!

 

[Stick_Player]

This guy's rig is bigger than Jagger's rig.