What's wrong with 2023 audiences?

[friskinator]

Since when did IPAs become synonymous with the hipster youth? If you read enough of these posts, live music is dying because of the internets and trendy beer.

 

[51PRI]

I've been gigging for about 30 years. I cut my teeth as a super young guy in an oldies band playing doo wop and Motown to upstate NY audiences who danced and clapped and smoked their butts off.
While Boston audiences were more reserved in the oughties and tens, still lots of clapping and dancing.
I've been living in North Carolina for over 8 years. Metro Charlotte. Banking, not that different from Boston.
Lately I've noticed that audiences are going stepford. No clapping. No interaction. No dancing. About half the gigs I'm at are at some level "Wallpaper Gigs"...where the band might as well be a potted plant designed for ambiance.

We are all mostly top players in our 40s and 50s. We play a bit of everything in order to please a wide selection of people from all demographics -rock, pop, disco, country, R&B.
We're not ugly. Sure the singer could use to lose 30 lbs but he wears his soda belly well.
Something happened to society between 1993 and 2023. In 1993 everyone would at least golf clap after a song ended. It's polite.

Last night my trio was asked to play a benefit for leukemia. Someones daughter had actually survived and they were doing a fundraiser. We were all but ignored, they didn't offer us any of the communal food...the family of the girl didn't acknowledge us.
A paid wallpaper gig is one thing. I get a Benjamin to be ignored.
A wallpaper benefit gig is actually unacceptable. I've been honing my singing and playing skills for 40 years! We donated our time, skills, and the use of $10,000 in gear to a good cause.
I'm disgusted. I'm sure I'm just an old man yelling at clouds- but I think I'm done playing benefits unless there's concessions made for the band (FOOD FOOD FOOD!).
I worked half a day at my day job and lost $$$ to be a hothouse flower centerpiece?
I can't wait to make a hundy this Saturday getting ignored. It's so much better than volunteering for it...

We were talking about this very subject after our gig last Saturday night. We played a new place for us. It was like an activity bar...games, axe throwing, sports on TV, cornhole, outside activities, etc. We had a pretty nice little crowd but there was absolutely NO interaction...no applause, no dancing, no requests, no tips. Then at the end of the night several people told us we were great. My theory is that these days, for the people that come to bars, the band is only a part, and maybe even a small part, of the experience...they're talking to each other, they're on their phones, they're texting, and on and on. It's really bizarre how things changed so much after the events of 2020 and 2021. I have to admit that I miss the dancing crowds of the 70's, 80's and 90's, and even into the 10's and teens.

My cousin plays in the St. Louis area and he says that folks don't dance there either.

 

[LBS-bass]

Well, there ARE clubs that work to establish a rep for having good live music on a consistent basis and they're usually the ones who pay better.

There are; they haven't all gone away, but there was a time when this was a pretty standard business model for clubs looking for success, and now it's seemingly the exception.

I do see some signs that it's turning back in a better direction; rumor has it that some of the venues where I play are paying more and tossing out bands that don't do well or play too loud to hold audiences. The higher pay sort of gives them a bit more leeway to demand a better draw, which only makes sense. I'd like to see more of this, myself. But, of course, you still need a certain type of club that's willing to incubate your band long enough to help you develop a draw. I'm lucky to have a good relationship with one of the better clubs like this around here. It's hard, even with that.

 

[DJ Bebop]

You weren't raised to practice etiquette. I blame your parents...
By this brand of pedantic pretzel logic, you'd feel entitled to ignore the Berlin Philharmonic while performing the entirety of Beethoven's 9th symphony Ode To Joy...simply because it's a cover tune.
We clap politely between songs/movements.
We are not troglodytes.

 

[Grahams Groove]

A lot of the band-related stuff that the OP can consider/change has already been addressed, but something else here stands out to me.

There seems to be a lack of understanding or acceptance for how the broader alcohol production and bar industries have evolved over the years - particularly in the last decade.

The OP (and others) have pretty flippantly commented on "hipster" breweries and wineries, "overpriced" drinks, and stiff/ignorant audiences. Maybe dig into that a bit more. If your prime gigging years were anywhere between the 60s and 90s, the landscape for people going out to drink (and maybe see music) was vastly different. Your primary options were bars, restaurants, or music-focused clubs/venues. At those venues, you basically had the choice of a handful of known, mass-produced light lagers, liquor/mixed drinks, and maybe a couple types of wine. It was all under the same roof, and the entertainment and/or socializing was a primary focus of the experience. The tasting, enjoying, discussing, and learning about what you were drinking was not at all a focal point of the experience for 99% of those in attendance. That has DRASTICALLY changed in the last decade or so, and it has evolved how & where people drink.

Take the beer industry as a specific example. There was a relatively modest 'craft boom' in the 90s, which resulted in the number of U.S. breweries growing from less than 300 to about 1,500 during the 1990s, after which things leveled out for a bit. Still, the level of widespread awareness and consumer interest in many of those brands was much smaller than it is today. There was homebrewing and enthusiasm for craft beer, but that was still a very niche thing.

Fast forward to the '2010s' and there's explosive growth in that segment. During the last 10 years ('12-'22) the number of U.S. breweries went from just over 2,500 to nearly 10,000. The reason for pointing this out is that the consumer market for this grew and demanded much of that industry growth. With that, came more interest in and ability to learn about & try different styles from different breweries. Likewise, the taproom and brewpub models proliferated, as the majority of these breweries do little or no distribution.

One obvious result is that there are many breweries that not only offer their beer (and their specific experience) on premise, but that may be one of the only locations you can try that brand. Sure, not every customer is going to deep dive into the history or hop profile of each beer they try. Still, you have to go out of your way to 'try that thing' and that, in and of itself, may be the primary experience. At the very least, it's likely less of an afterthought relative to meeting your friends at a bar and getting whatever is on tap or on special. In short, a notable part of the experience is the beverage itself.

That's just the beer industry. Then consider wine, craft spirits/distilleries, and other beverage types that have come into the picture during the last decade. Whether or not you like it, this model of small/craft/local provides a relatively new and different type of experience to consumers. By default, this disperses drinkers that may otherwise be packing into area bars or clubs to drink and do whatever else that venue/space offers. So this speaks to two things being talked about with crowds (or lackthereof). One, there are simply more places to go for a day or night out if you're looking to have a drink. Two, you can't reasonably compare (and expect the same from) crowds at a bar known to host live music and crowds at a taproom or winery that hosts live music, however frequently. Whether you like or understand the allure of craft anything, it's more of a thoughtful and engaging experience for many, compared to going and grabbing a miller lite or a rail vodka-soda at a bar. You can love it, hate it, think it's "hipster", or whatever your personal perspective is. The point is that it is very different, and it makes for a very different atmosphere and expectation for those in attendance.

 

[DJ Bebop]

People who think young people don't like older music are looking through a certain lens. Yes, you're going to find a lot of young people at EDM or hip hop shows and parties with DJs and whatnot, but today's young people have a much broader set of musical exposures than my generation ever did, because the music of my generation's era has never gone away. You still hear it everywhere.

However, I was engaged in a walk-and-talk at a venue on the subject of older music being appreciated by young people. As we talked my partner pointing to a young guy wearing a Hendrix Tee shirt and said "see, appreciation for older music." I said, maybe and asked the kid if he knew who that was on his Tee. He looked down at it and said "a guitarist I think?" My friend asked him if he was kidding? He said no.

 

[Paul New]

Music might come back in style one day. It’s possible.

 

[edwinhurwitz]

This is a great point that I think a lot of older TBL'ers on here are most certainly struggling with in the last few years. We have a few generations now that do not give two s**ts about the music of the 60's and 70's, or rock in general. They want to hear Freebird or Zep or Wilson Pickett about as much as I wanted to hear the Glenn Miller Orchestra when I was back in college.

I am not into playing in cover bands, and certainly not into watching them. I'm a jazz/funk/ambient pedalboard guy. But it still took a while for me (in my 50's) to realize the musical world that I grew up in just isn't all that relevant to a lot of people anymore. And there's nothing wrong with it, or is it anything to be mad about because it happens in every generation and culture.

I agree with all of this. I played original music for most of my career (and did OK) and when I decided to get off the road in 2009 and go to law school, I joined the longest running Colorado Grateful Dead tribute band. We do nothing but Grateful Dead. It bucks the trend of classic rock and Top 40 experiences I see here. We play theaters, clubs, and occasional large venue gigs and people always dance, lots of younger people show up, and everyone who is there is involved. I think the point is that it speaks to certain culture, which, although it's not the mainstream, has evolved over the years and always welcomed younger people. It's one of the few parts of our larger society where music played by real people as it was in years past is still embraced and even encourages some very out there playing. It's not everyone's thing, but those who are into it are into it. When I was coming up in the late 80s and early 90s, I started a band that was what I wanted to hear (mixture of funk, world music and what became known as jam band). We played gigs with Phish, Widespread Panic, Aquarium Rescue Unit, and other bands that became mainstays of the jam band world, but back then, it was just bands that enjoyed each and wanted to support a scene that was developing. IOW, we were creating something that was different at the time for our friends and the circle of friends got very big. For the various reason cited here, the ability to make a living as a Top 40 band seems to be going the way of the journeyman studio musician of the 40s-80s. I would encourage anyone who wants to get a good response from their audiences to have at least one project that is original or at least something done out of a personal desire to express and challenge yourself, be that jazz, metal, experimental, polka, electronic, solo bass looping, etc. When people see a schtick that has been happening since the 40s (MC for a cover band? People don't go for that anymore, especially ones that are proud of baffling them with BS), they tune out. When they hear music which the musicians have a direct personal connection with, they are far more likely to be drawn in and at the very least, you can please yourself. People now are into authentic personal expression, which is why you have so many original bands, hip hop artists, electronica, experimental musicians, etc., and everyone has their own playlists that express their personal interaction with music. While I play in a cover band, we all have a connection to the music going back a long time and bring our own personalities to it. We're invested. It's not what I wanted to play when I first started gigging (I swore I'd never play in a cover band and never in a GD cover band! I turned down some very big opportunities in that world. But never say never) People respond to that. If we just played all the songs like the originals, we wouldn't get very far at all. Time to stop being a musical bus driver and light a spark.

 

[Grahams Groove]

Since when did IPAs become synonymous with the hipster youth? If you read enough of these posts, live music is dying because of the internets and trendy beer.

It reads like a word-salad of terms that some people find scary, because they don't like, understand, or care about them. The beer thing caught my eye, hence my marathon post about the industry and 'drinking establishments'.

It also surprises me that musicians who have played wineries, taprooms, etc. do not immediately grasp that the environment is more like a restaurant than a packed bar. Unless you're playing a spot that has built a reputation for having music/bands as a focal point, created a stage, etc. I don't understand the surprise that many patrons are disinterested. I'm sure it doesn't feel great, but it's more about managing expectations.

 

[Honkey tonk]

What if the show was/is-somehow integrated with phones

I would not even bring a phone to a concert but a bar I mess with my phone and I'll watch a band at the same time

 

[edwinhurwitz]

It reads like a word-salad of terms that some people find scary, because they don't like, understand, or care about them. The beer thing caught my eye, hence my marathon post about the industry and 'drinking establishments'.

It also surprises me that musicians who have played wineries, taprooms, etc. do not immediately grasp that the environment is more like a restaurant than a packed bar. Unless you're playing a spot that has built a reputation for having music/bands as a focal point, created a stage, etc. I don't understand the surprise that many patrons are disinterested. I'm sure it doesn't feel great, but it's more about managing expectations.

Unless I am going specifically to see the band, I want the music to be in the background and to be able to hold a conversation without yelling. I like live music, but in that scenario, it should be respectfully as unobtrusive as the decor. I've played those gigs and have no problem being part of the ambience.

 

[DJ Bebop]

A simpler explanation is rock is one of many trends in popular music that was dominant for a time and now it isn't. It's not the fault of young people that older people can't see that. Maybe 20 somethings just don't want to listen to grandpa's music anymore. Hell, I'm in my 50's and I don't, either.

And that happens at every generational intersection. Out with the old, in with the new. The parents of the Big Band kids hated that. And the Rock music of the babies of the Big Band kids was hated by them, and so on.
Times change, tastes change.

 

[MCF]

I've been gigging for about 30 years. I cut my teeth as a super young guy in an oldies band playing doo wop and Motown to upstate NY audiences who danced and clapped and smoked their butts off.
While Boston audiences were more reserved in the oughties and tens, still lots of clapping and dancing.
I've been living in North Carolina for over 8 years. Metro Charlotte. Banking, not that different from Boston.
Lately I've noticed that audiences are going stepford. No clapping. No interaction. No dancing. About half the gigs I'm at are at some level "Wallpaper Gigs"...where the band might as well be a potted plant designed for ambiance.

We are all mostly top players in our 40s and 50s. We play a bit of everything in order to please a wide selection of people from all demographics -rock, pop, disco, country, R&B.
We're not ugly. Sure the singer could use to lose 30 lbs but he wears his soda belly well.
Something happened to society between 1993 and 2023. In 1993 everyone would at least golf clap after a song ended. It's polite.

Last night my trio was asked to play a benefit for leukemia. Someones daughter had actually survived and they were doing a fundraiser. We were all but ignored, they didn't offer us any of the communal food...the family of the girl didn't acknowledge us.
A paid wallpaper gig is one thing. I get a Benjamin to be ignored.
A wallpaper benefit gig is actually unacceptable. I've been honing my singing and playing skills for 40 years! We donated our time, skills, and the use of $10,000 in gear to a good cause.
I'm disgusted. I'm sure I'm just an old man yelling at clouds- but I think I'm done playing benefits unless there's concessions made for the band (FOOD FOOD FOOD!).
I worked half a day at my day job and lost $$$ to be a hothouse flower centerpiece?
I can't wait to make a hundy this Saturday getting ignored. It's so much better than volunteering for it...

Blame Steve Jobs. It’s all his fault. I go to shows and everyone around me is on their phone. I might pull mine out to snap a few pics. But back in the pocket it goes.

I’m a huge baseball fan and go to a lot of games. People all around me just stare at their phones. God forbid a foul ball comes straight at them.

It’s a different world. I don’t care for it.

 

[Lucas Carioli]

No, but it really is going on significant change in the behavior of the audience in the last 10 years at least. This is visible, not only in charity concerts but with the big ones and other entertainment activites. People are screaming louder and louder, the speech has became shallow, music and sports are getting extremist. All for capture attention rather than that little shiny display in the hands of all. Obviously being musician you must be good on your doing, but now this is not enough. Young people can't see the difference because grew up in this era. But who knew the world 20, 30 years ago can tell you.

 

[gln1955]

It reads like a word-salad of terms that some people find scary, because they don't like, understand, or care about them. The beer thing caught my eye, hence my marathon post about the industry and 'drinking establishments'.

It also surprises me that musicians who have played wineries, taprooms, etc. do not immediately grasp that the environment is more like a restaurant than a packed bar. Unless you're playing a spot that has built a reputation for having music/bands as a focal point, created a stage, etc. I don't understand the surprise that many patrons are disinterested. I'm sure it doesn't feel great, but it's more about managing expectations.

The characterization of breweries as a monolith is off the mark.

One of the best places my band plays is a brewery. It's basically two different venues. During the cold months, they just do solo/duo/acoustic acts inside because the acoustics suck and the patrons just want to drink a couple beers and talk. Our BL is a regular for these as a solo act. During the warmer months, the outside stage opens up onto a huge open space and we play as a full band to a great mixed crowd including the aforementioned sip and talk crowd, families with kids running around and even a few dancers. It's a live entertainment model that works for everyone.

 

[Naturekev]

Finishing a song and having total silence and no acknowledgement is something that has to be experienced. It's quite a thing. Cannot be conveyed with words.

Our band experienced this. Played at a bar where we were completely ignored the whole night. That experience always makes me think of The Breakfast Club, where Ally Sheedy's character is asked if her parents beat her. Her resonse was, "Worse. They ignore me." I would rather have been booed and been told we suck than have no response at all.

 

[Barticus]

I have not noticed this--my bands always get at least polite applause and at best, huge rowdy dancing screaming crowds. Sure, people looking at phones has increasingly become a thing over the last 20 years. But if no one is clapping after songs or interacting with the band in any way, you may be playing for the wrong audiences and your repertoire may need updating.

Yep, this is my experience as well. Great crowds, having fun and interacting with us. I’m guessing audience/venue is mostly the issue here.

 

[FSGrind]

Yeah, this was A+.

I’ve never been in a cover band - but I know that my friends in bands & the people that come see our bands have no interest in watching a cover band. If I go out to a bar & there is a cover band playing I will usually go somewhere else. There was one venue in town that was known as the meca for cover and tribute bands. They’ve got a completely different scene going on. The crowds are usually 50+ years old. To an outsider, it looks like there’s a few spots that all the cover and tribute bands play & they know to stay away from the places that original acts play. There’s zero crossover. I think there’s still good gigs on both sides & more young people creating than ever. It’s just so detached from the cover band world. Two totally different things.

I figured I would just respond to both of these quotes. It seems like the microbreweries and that demographic definitely aren't your place. Your band, based on what you've described, and these locations/demos just seem to be two different worlds. For example, the rock and disco especially seem very out of place for that demographic. On average, the younger person just doesn't want to see a bunch of old guys playing old songs that they (the younger audience) doesn't care about or have any connection to. Are there any other locations you can play that might be more fitting, where you will be better appreciated?

As a 20 something, I've heard and read that "don't know how to react to real life" stuff a lot, and trust me I know it's at least partly in jest, but there is still a huge scene of 20s people going out in general and socializing, as well as going to see music. It's just not the same music anymore/the music you are playing. That is in one sense a type of rebellion that is indeed happening amongst younger people. They simply do not want to go out to see cover bands of guys playing the same songs they've been playing for 40ish years. And there is plenty of both mellow and non-mellow music in the younger demographic. Heard any modern metal variants? Anything but mellow. Things are more fragmented now than they have ever been. There's lots of stuff out there, you just have to find it.

Honestly, I see just as many people who are up into their early 60s who are as addicted to their phones/social media as any other age group. It's not just a young person thing.

I have also talked to many people these days who do not want there to be a band when they go out to a bar or out to eat. They view it as an annoyance, a distraction and a turn off and I've heard it compared to annoying trivia at places, where people will choose to go somewhere else without for their night out.

I don't mean any of this to be insulting, just in case it came off that way. I'm just trying to offer you a different perspective. I definitely understand all of your annoyances with the way things are. I hope you and your group are able to find some local places that you can play regularly that will have a more fitting, appreciative and interactive crowd for you. There's nothing worse than a wallpaper gig.

Good luck!

 

[GWGuitar]

Welcome to “The Matrix.” I went to see my favorite band, Khruangbin, a couple of years ago. The band was fantastic, but even the dancers were videoing the band on their phones the whole time. I’m 63 so I took a few pictures and grooved the rest of the time. It was weird to see people watching the live band on their phones when the real thing was 15 feet away on the stage.

 

[Grahams Groove]

The characterization of breweries as a monolith is off the mark.

One of the best places my band plays is a brewery. It's basically two different venues. During the cold months, they just do solo/duo/acoustic acts inside because the acoustics suck and the patrons just want to drink a couple beers and talk. Our BL is a regular for these as a solo act. During the warmer months, the outside stage opens up onto a huge open space and we play as a full band to a great mixed crowd including the aforementioned sip and talk crowd, families with kids running around and even a few dancers. It's a live entertainment model that works for everyone.

To be fair, that falls into my qualifier of "playing a spot that has built a reputation for having music/bands as a focal point, created a stage, etc." So I'm not at all implying that they're monoliths.

Even if the one you play at doesn't have consistent, regularly scheduled bands outside, that environment and setup accommodates a variety of people. It's open air, and has less reverb/volume compared to doing that inside. It's maybe larger than their inside space, allowing folks to sit where the volume works for their desired experience. It also allows patrons who don't want that to go inside and be away from it. And their shift to acoustic/lower volume stuff during the colder/inside months speaks to understanding music as ambience when they presumably know some patrons come in just wanting to have a beer & talk.

ETA: I go to some breweries that make music a huge part of their business model. And when I'm in the mood to drink their beer and see some live music, it's great to have them as an option. Still, it's about expectations. I think it's pretty clear as a band when you're the main attraction versus when you're part of the backdrop.

The reality is this. If you're part of the backdrop and you understand that, it's strange to expect constant attention and an enthusiastic reaction throughout your set. If you're the main attraction and you aren't getting those things, it's time to think about your setlist, performance, and/or how the event is being promoted.