I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: most musicians do not want to work that hard. Even the talented ones. That’s why mediocrity dominates for most of the live music scenes everywhere.
Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
What's wrong with 2023 audiences?
- Thread starter Lance Bunyon
- Start date
- Status
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: most musicians do not want to work that hard. Even the talented ones. That’s why mediocrity dominates for most of the live music scenes everywhere.
I think that's why mediocrity dominates in a lot of spheres, not just music.
You really have to be driven by something bigger than the need to have fun to work hard at music. I mean, people don't really want to work hard at their regular jobs that they use to pay their bills and put food on their tables. So there has to be something intrinsic in it that makes it more than just a fun weekend for people to want to do the work that sets them apart from the crowd.
It used to be that clubs wouldn't hire crappy bands, so you really didn't even get to the starting gate without a certain level of ability and dedication. But that barrier is long gone. So things are different.
Local circuit band in the county, my pick for best around and I dont think that is even subjective, recently told me that all the bands in their town were $h**..!!
Was quite deliberate not to include other towns bands though...?? Maybe they knew those bands in their town much better.
I was surprised they said that so empathically and with a lack of commraderie.
And its probably true that there are too many bands that take the easy route with choices of material, puting the right people together and picking their gigs. The conclusion is that they just don't care much or care about the wrong stuff.
Was quite deliberate not to include other towns bands though...?? Maybe they knew those bands in their town much better.
I was surprised they said that so empathically and with a lack of commraderie.
And its probably true that there are too many bands that take the easy route with choices of material, puting the right people together and picking their gigs. The conclusion is that they just don't care much or care about the wrong stuff.
Sorry, and not to pick on anyone in particular but - because I have a large family I'm very involved with, a homeowner, and work full time+ running a small business, limiting the amount of time I can invest into reaching a level of entertainment excellence someone else expects from me, I "just don't care much" or "care about the wrong stuff" ??
Years ago I spent A LOT of time in the Band Management forum and yes, there were always the "don't play for free" crowds, but I don't remember the disdain I see now for people who simply make other choices for themselves regarding their musical outlet, and who only manage to become a "mediocre" or "crappy" band in some other's eyes. It's true some bands are better than others but everyone has the right and freedom to make their own way. And, I guess by the same token others have the right to deride what they think is beneath them. It just strikes me as a poor attitude.
I guess I'm exposing that I'm not a stellar, flashy player with lots of theory, nor a stage sensation, and that I don't spend 3-4 hours a day practicing bass or stage moves in front of a mirror (although I do get a lot of compliments and believe I'm a solid player and an asset to my bands) - but can't we just live and let live, and enjoy making music with our beloved instrument however life priorities and the inevitable "change" arranges opportunities for us, instead of blaming and looking down on others who make different life choices - when that "change" doesn't work out how we'd like?
Years ago I spent A LOT of time in the Band Management forum and yes, there were always the "don't play for free" crowds, but I don't remember the disdain I see now for people who simply make other choices for themselves regarding their musical outlet, and who only manage to become a "mediocre" or "crappy" band in some other's eyes. It's true some bands are better than others but everyone has the right and freedom to make their own way. And, I guess by the same token others have the right to deride what they think is beneath them. It just strikes me as a poor attitude.
I guess I'm exposing that I'm not a stellar, flashy player with lots of theory, nor a stage sensation, and that I don't spend 3-4 hours a day practicing bass or stage moves in front of a mirror (although I do get a lot of compliments and believe I'm a solid player and an asset to my bands) - but can't we just live and let live, and enjoy making music with our beloved instrument however life priorities and the inevitable "change" arranges opportunities for us, instead of blaming and looking down on others who make different life choices - when that "change" doesn't work out how we'd like?
Absolutely. There’s joy in every level of playing. In some ways, there can be more joys in the beginning when the gains are quick and less as you fine tune or reach for the really tough stuff. Each person just has to find their comfort and balance. There’s no room for shame or negativity in music.
Are you suggesting “if you can’t think of something nice to say don’t say anything”? There may be a time and a place for that but not on a forum IMO. This is where we come to vent and complain. It feels good to get it off your chest!
D
If the crowd is all drunk,it can be a good thing. Long as they give me space.
Yeah English is not my native language, so please excuse me if something can across as harsh.
As you said mediocrity is thriving in a world, where we have more than enough content.
I have nothing against playing in "mediocre" or "crappy" bands. Hell I do it myself.
if you are in a fun band, that is great. The connection with bandmates, improving on the instrument and sometimes connecting with the audience is fun. If you strive to be more than "Wallpaper music", and for the audience to pay sincere attention to you for longer periods of time and regular gigs- one needs to put in the time to create an entertainment that is more than just a few cover songs.
Everyone is at different parts in their life. I can't practice 2h+ a day anymore either, but one also needs to manage the expectations based on the time put in.
I bet you could do a full show where every song is about Cars. That would be cool.I can't even imagine telling the venue how to run their business, or literally force those in the crowd to focus where I want them to focus.
There are too many gigs where the band is not the main/only focus, we're not rock stars doing concerts.
I'm doing two car-centered events this year; am I supposed to not play them, or tell them to get rid of the cars?
If it's literally background music, or music just to support something in the theatrical context, is that not a legitimate gig for musicians?
If I'm payed to play under a big TV screen, that's what I'm gonna do, full energy and a smile (or whatever weird face I might make)
I'm not going to disappoint whoever's paying, and those who do focus on the band, however many or few that might be.
This topic has so much wrapped up in it. Most the local bands I knew back in Dallas worried predominantly about playing the song picture perfect for dive bar gigs and not much about the performance. Not all of them, not the best ones, but a good number of them. Also, I'm not here to say "ha, pocket rectangle is evil", but we're not competing with 3 major networks and the local roller rink anymore. It doesn't hurt any band to consider that they ought to try to be more enticing and entertaining than the ease of Netflix/Spotify at home. That's not a young people thing, that's an accessibility of the pantheon of recorded media everywhere and at any given moment thing.
I played good shows in front of an exciting number of people and I've played for free to a sound guy and the barman. It happens. Is it a bummer? Sure, but it's not "crowds these days". It's a different environment entirely. For the record though, if I was the family or event coordinator in question I'd have given OP's band food but the music would at best be set dressing while talking about the cause, mingling, and likely focusing on the cancer survivor. We're not entitled to clapping, attendance, or attention.
I played good shows in front of an exciting number of people and I've played for free to a sound guy and the barman. It happens. Is it a bummer? Sure, but it's not "crowds these days". It's a different environment entirely. For the record though, if I was the family or event coordinator in question I'd have given OP's band food but the music would at best be set dressing while talking about the cause, mingling, and likely focusing on the cancer survivor. We're not entitled to clapping, attendance, or attention.
I tend to look at things from my own distorted lens; I suspect we all do. There's no one way to do this, and I'm it's just not in my job description to decide who's right and wrong about it.
That said, regardless of approach, the consequences are what they are. Consistently getting the same poor response (or good response) from venue patrons is not on them.
Interesting that these first two new posts I see today are both from opposite ends of the scale. Problem with this band's perspective, from where I sit/in my experience, is allowing yourself an inner dialogue that says "we're better than everyone else" is tacitly telling yourself there's no need to keep growing. I've seen too many bands that think they've "arrived" start taking themselves too seriously and start to stagnate creatively. They get boring and kind of sad.
Last edited:
Yep, nothing wrong with not making music your life. Once upon a time I practiced with bands 4 nights a week, gigged minimum of 1 night a week, practiced on my own, and held a full time job. I thought we were great and we typically had a great crowd response (we liked being "the heel" and yelling at/being mean to the crowds and bands we were friends with on stage). Nowadays I'm trying to get back into jamming once a week, practicing on my own, and finding a band I can really stick with. It's important to set expectations realistically. $h!7 happens.
Definitely experienced this in a band I really enjoyed being in for a long time. They "almost made it" before I joined as a result of tragic circumstances they experienced, and had to play specifically the way they did and write the way they did because of "fan expectations". I definitely think it made things more difficult to progress. Very frustrating to learn a song note for note, show up to practice, have them play the progression reversed, and insist that they know the song because they've played it for forever. Then, after explicitly showing them how wrong they are, listening to them insist that it's from some obscure live version that they conveniently can't find.
Re being better etc...
That could have some truth in it but the guy saying that has played with some of the best, and is a top top top player.
In our neck of the woods one of our regular gtrs is the best around....and is a class apart...until he comes up against the guy above who is levels above again.
So, until I see the bands he was talking about, I am not sure what his definition of $h** actually means.
However, the bar here also isn't the highest but most bands do 'ok'
That could have some truth in it but the guy saying that has played with some of the best, and is a top top top player.
In our neck of the woods one of our regular gtrs is the best around....and is a class apart...until he comes up against the guy above who is levels above again.
So, until I see the bands he was talking about, I am not sure what his definition of $h** actually means.
However, the bar here also isn't the highest but most bands do 'ok'
Last edited:
Agreed. Happened to me the other night in our new (trying to be a) band that I'm NOT the bass player in. Bass player brought in a song to learn. We all learned it at home. The bass player and the other guitar player learned it wrong. I had to play it for them before they got it. Other guitar player was going from online tabs...which were wrong. There's nothing like sitting down and spending some time learning a song from the original recording.
True enough. The blues band I'm in, play bass in, played a festival type event last weekend. There was a mixture of band members dressing up, or not, and I thought we were the worst band musically, just being honest, but we had the most people watching us. I'm not sure what them means...just an observation.
Sure, but...have you ever watched a basketball game in which a player waves his hands attempting to get the crowd into it? What's the musical equivalent of that?Don't blame the audience if you can't hold their attention, amirite?
I like it when there is a large crowd that are obviously listening to the music but are talking, dancing, socializing, not JUST listening to us. I get real nervous then. Although, now that I think about it, we've been on TV many times and it gets easier every time.
No, especially not at the local level for $100-150 per man
One of the crappiest bands I was ever in was one of the most successful.
Dunno. I guess you need to be more entertaining than their phones.
People have short attention spans these days. I think a really good band with a lot of energy won't have trouble pulling people away from their phones. The audience is the customer you have to sell yourself to.
Nothing is more entertaining than a phone. There’s no way anything else can compete with it. Even when people are at a concert that they paid money for and have been planning for months, the phone will always be integrated into the experience. That’s just how it works now.
Completely agree. Painting everyone with a broad brush talking about the pocket rectangle is very much an "Old man yells at clouds" thing. At most I'd see 1 or 2 phones at shows (during the playing) we were on and typically they were filming the set. You absolutely have to be more entertaining than a phone. At least more fun to watch. With all the other media that live music is competing with I'd say it's equally important to be a fun-to-watch performance as it is to sound good.
Of course, there will be more phones at big name events and shows especially as price goes up but I suspect it's from a fear of not being able to look back on something they paid a ton to be there for. Even though it isn't gonna sound anywhere near as good.
On the flip side though I got into it with my special lady recently when she was not getting why, when you've finally recorded an album and you want to sit them down to listen to it/show them it, that it's rude to just be talking over it and jacking around on your phone. I suppose the difference is, I'd only waste the time trying to show someone cause I love them and am proud. Other than that, I don't care if less than 0 people ever hear my music.
Last edited:
It's true. We have people "filming" us at the festival show last week.
Well, sure. Everything on YOUR phone is designed by you to show you content you want to see. What can be better than that? Watching the NBA Finals I see girls on the front rows at games during the game watching their phone. Their phone is better than LeBron and Jokic.
I mean, the filming quality is awful and all but in that instance at least they are paying attention to you. As far as watching the game at the game, I did see that recently, but they were watching a different game during inning changes. Iunno man, I find it hard to be perturbed about it one way or the other. Are some people glued to it, yeah, but not everyone. My buddy actually has been lookin to replace his with a rotary dial cell phone cause he's tired of all the hooplah. Different strokes and YMMV 'n' such.
- Status
