What's wrong with 2023 audiences?

[FunkHead]

….and they will make it difficult for you to implement that strategy

yet you say in another post:

is that this makes it really easy to rise above the sea of sameness out there.

 

[Pocket Dave]

I don't. You've been tough but kind. Others? Not so much. It's cool. I did open myself up to a lot of up and coming genZers and read an entirely different perspective on how you and I came up in performance.

It's also helped me to re-think whatever our mission statement is as a band. I think we play too often in venues which are dying by no fault of their own.
The place that instantly.comes to mind is a little state line venue which can't decide what it wants to be. The owner likely spent around a hundred grand renovating the outside into three professional volleyball courts. And although I'm not a sporto at all, I appreciate the athleticism involved. But the volleyball peeps aren't there to hear music.

I can't speak for all different paths a venue might take, but 100% of the live-music-as-a-direction failures I've seen have been the result of the owner not buying fully into the concept, be it through under-paying musicians, under-promoting, or unwillingness to put in the effort. In most of these cases, the rro of all this under-investment has been not knowing what they wanted their venue to be when it grew up.

When I return from Asia in July I plan to have a sit-down with my mates. I think we need to establish where we're going to try and play, for which crowds, and for what minimum pay.

IOW, defining what you want to be when you grow up. A bit harsh, and risks accepting that you'll ever grow up, but maybe a good first brush in helping keep real goal-setting a real thing with your band.

My BL is an interesting guy. He works in finance but seems too frightened to ask for a living wage...

Or maybe he makes tons of $$ in finance and just isn't hungry enough to ask for more. Whatever the case, there's no shame in putting a reasonable value on one's service and talents.

 

[LBS-bass]

yet you say in another post:

Those two things are not mutually exclusive. It is easy to do the needed tweaks- just learn a few new songs for every show to build your list, and so forth. Advertise a little. And smile. Show the audience you're there to have fun.

But people who are mired in groupthink will drag you down by refusing to get on board, because they don't actually want to learn anything new. At that point you either have to convince them or you have to get different people.

I have just been through this with a new(ish) band member who came in wanting to call the shots and "fix" everything she thought we were doing wrong. Once we had a few shows and she saw how much success we were having I was able to talk her down from the ledge. But this is more the norm rather than the exception. Most people think the way most people do it is what works but then they wonder why nobody cares about their shows.

 

[Pocket Dave]

Those two things are not mutually exclusive. It is easy to do the needed tweaks, but people who are mired in groupthink will drag you down by refusing to get on board, because they don't actually want to learn anything new. At that point you either have to convince them or you have to get different people.

IKR. Sometimes I get group-thunk by the idiot group in my own head.

 

[LBS-bass]

IKR. Sometimes I get group-thunk by the idiot group in my own head.

Yeah, I can do that too. I'm always just looking at what I've seen work in the past and what seems to work now. But it's not like I have all the good ideas.

 

[FunkHead]

Those two things are not mutually exclusive. It is easy to do the needed tweaks- just learn a few new songs for every show to build your list, and so forth. And smile. Show the audience you're there to have fun.

But people who are mired in groupthink will drag you down by refusing to get on board, because they don't actually want to learn anything new. At that point you either have to convince them or you have to get different people.

I have just been through this with a new(ish) band member who came in wanting to call the shots and "fix" everything she thought we were doing wrong. Once we had a few shows and she saw how much success we were having I was able to talk her down from the ledge. But this is more the norm rather than the exception. Most people think the way most people do it is what works but then they wonder why nobody cares about their shows.

Lol, you completely contradicted yourself and now you’re just backpedaling. You said how easy it is to rise above all the other bands “sea of sameness”. Then you said how hard they make it for the better bands.
If it was so easy 1/2 of us would be household names. But so many people are patting themselves on the back all while experiencing the same struggles as the OP.

 

[LBS-bass]

Lol, you completely contradicted yourself and now you’re just backpedaling. You said how easy it is to rise above all the other bands “sea of sameness”. Then you said how hard they make it for the better bands.
If it was so easy 1/2 of us would be household names. But so many people are patting themselves on the back all while experiencing the same struggles as the OP.

Oh honey, if you see this as a contradiction, I can't really help you. I know there are people here who just want to be disagreeable with me because they can't stand the idea that someone might have something they can learn from, and it's even worse when that person is a she. I get it. You're not doing anything unique or special here.

But just go back and read my posts again, slowly, until you understand what I actually said. Things are easy to do. People are difficult. You're proving that right now. There's no contradiction there.

Enjoy your evening.

 

[FunkHead]

Oh honey, if you see this as a contradiction, I can't really help you. I know there are people here who just want to be disagreeable with me because they can't stand the idea that someone might have something they can learn from, and it's even worse when that person is a she. I get it. You're not doing anything unique or special here.

But just go back and read my posts again, slowly, until you understand what I actually said. Things are easy to do. People are difficult. You're proving that right now. There's no contradiction there.

Enjoy your evening.

I am not asking for help dear. Nor am I trying to be difficult. I guess we just see things very differently.
Have a good evening as well.

 

[Pocket Dave]

Yeah, I can do that too. I'm always just looking at what I've seen work in the past and what seems to work now. But it's not like I have all the good ideas.

I've seen what hasn't worked so well in the past - Surprise! I've been wrong a lot.

Though it's getting easier to tell my brain when it's due for a break. Time to go sit in the corner and shut up.

 

[LBS-bass]

I've seen what hasn't worked so well in the past - Surprise! I've been wrong a lot.

Though it's getting easier to tell my brain when it's due for a break. Time to go sit in the corner and shut up.

I was blessed to be in some hugely successful bands early on, so I took a lot of good lessons from that. Much of it still applies, at least it still works for me. But it’s not conventional wisdom so as you can see I get a bit of pushback on it. No real problem there though. I’m not sad when I’m doing well.

 

[pepj]

You can add 'compatibility' to your band call members.
I dont want to play dives so I don't target those gigs
but i also know which guys do it firstly for the money and they may do want to take those gigs.
They can put another band in there but the problem I have with that is I'm trying to sell a 'premium' but the booker checks the main guy and sees some of his lesser bands and that paints his picture.
And the worst follow on from that is that they percieve I'm full of BS with my pitch..
We alway get repeats on the venues that know us, but new venues are harder..for the reasons above.

My choices are to ditch that frontman name or accept it. The only hope I have is that he has come to realise that taking any crap gig asap actually takes a lot of better gigs off his table because he is already booked.
But...jeez..this guy isnt a noob. Why is this rocketscience??

 

[Bass Viking]

"We play too much for any reason at any venue. Why are we doing this?"
BL: "don't you remember our mission statement? 'we will play anywhere anytime for any reason ' ".
I hadn't remembered our mission statement. It was stupid and unwise.

That’s one of the worst mission statements I’ve ever heard!

 

[Pacman]

That's great. I wish we had dancing crowds like that. I'll ask you this directly (and only Pacman answer, please): do you remember what song you were playing when this pic was taken?

It could have been "Vivir Mi Vida" (A Marc Anthony tune) or possibly a Salena tune at that time, but they basically danced our entire second set...

 

[ChrisB2]

The thought that every player at every level is going to be entertaining enough to a crowd of strangers to hold them in a club setting is a bit of a stretch though.

Who expressed that thought? Not me.

if you want better results as you move out toward better venues, you will have to work for those. I seriously can't imagine how or why this is an offensive idea.

Of course. That's not an offensive idea, not sure where you came up with that. Go back and read the post you quoted again. What IS borderline offensive is the notion that certain people seem to be judging others by their own performance standard, and writing posts that drip with condescension for any other standard they deem beneath their own. It's just a poor attitude.

 

[Bass Viking]

Things are easy to do. People are difficult.

I think I get where you’re coming from. The bar is pretty low these days and it’s not that they can’t do it, it’s that they won’t do it.

 

[Low End Scum]

I think I get where you’re coming from. The bar is pretty low these days and it’s not that they can’t do it, it’s that they won’t do it.

I'm fond of saying that almost no band ever quit because their music sucked. Typically they don't get to the point of being a band if that's the case. More often than not, it's a personnel issue. Definitely have gotten more jaded to it over the years.

Currently trying to figure out a drummer that insists on practicing at his apartment (so he doesn't have to move his electric kit) instead of at the house shared by myself and the guitarist where we have enough gear that everyone but the drummer would only need to bring over extra gear if they wanted it. If that were it, I could still work with it. It was the comment that time changes and tempo changes mean a song isn't complete and that it's not real music (because the drummer can't play that kinda stuff). Of course, the obvious answer is fire them or quit, but I'm still having fun and the rest of the guys are good. Finding competent musicians in my podunk moo-cow flyover town is a challenge and they're good buddies with the drummer so I'll just keep jamming and looking.

 

[Bass Viking]

I'm fond of saying that almost no band ever quit because their music sucked. Typically they don't get to the point of being a band if that's the case. More often than not, it's a personnel issue. Definitely have gotten more jaded to it over the years.

Currently trying to figure out a drummer that insists on practicing at his apartment (so he doesn't have to move his electric kit) instead of at the house shared by myself and the guitarist where we have enough gear that everyone but the drummer would only need to bring over extra gear if they wanted it. If that were it, I could still work with it. It was the comment that time changes and tempo changes mean a song isn't complete and that it's not real music (because the drummer can't play that kinda stuff). Of course, the obvious answer is fire them or quit, but I'm still having fun and the rest of the guys are good. Finding competent musicians in my podunk moo-cow flyover town is a challenge and they're good buddies with the drummer so I'll just keep jamming and looking.

The drummer wants to have band practice in an apartment instead of a house? That seems like the opposite of most people. What about possible complaints about noise?

He thinks that time and tempo changes within a song make it incomplete? Not sure I understand.

 

[gln1955]

He thinks that time and tempo changes within a song make it incomplete? Not sure I understand.

He thinks is makes the music more "organic", which in his case means it's rotten and it stinks.

 

[Low End Scum]

The drummer wants to have band practice in an apartment instead of a house? That seems like the opposite of most people. What about possible complaints about noise?

He thinks that time and tempo changes within a song make it incomplete? Not sure I understand.

We are frequently recommending he turn down. He likes his off-beat kick to have that BWWWAAAOOOM overtone that rattles walls. I'm honestly shocked the cops haven't shown up over a noise complaint (been participating in this for 2 sessions now). It'd be funny cause I work for my city and know quite a few of the cops from work.

And, yeah, no you understand perfectly fine. It's just that wrong and nonsensical, but I doubt drummer actually believes it. They just use it as an excuse to not practice or learn anything but 4 on the floor which it seems is also a struggle. The only reason I stayed after the first jam was the singer is as fresh as I am to the group and showed up with a melody for each in progress songs and lyrics. The second time, guitarist shows up with another decent framework for another song lined out and during practice the singer wrote out half the first draft of lyrics. Everyone else is proficient, and has gigged in their role before. So if I can't find anything better I figure they'll get fed up with it too before very long at all. Most things in life tend not to happen as quickly as we'd like.

 

[DJ Bebop]

Most things in life tend not to happen as quickly as we'd like.

Except for the end, then it's too quick.