What's wrong with 2023 audiences?

[Low End Scum]

Except for the end, then it's too quick.

Lol, fair point.

 

[Lance Bunyon]

That’s one of the worst mission statements I’ve ever heard!

It was horrible. My BL/Guitarist at the time was hands down the BEST guitarist I've ever played with even to this point. I was 28 when I joined that band and had been sidelined by getting off drugs for most of that decade (getting off is easy, staying off is a full time job for a while). So I was young and naive and wasn't sure what a general business bands mission should be. For a while it was great because I got tons of stage time. The turning point may have been where we drove up into the town of Fleischmans, NY one afternoon to play a private Mexican christening for BLs co-workers for basically nothing ($25 per man) and then we drove to Kingston to play our house gig at the Holiday inn. All that singing and schlepping to do 3 gigs in 24 hours (12 sets!) in smoky environments. Keep in mind my 90s era Ampeg 410 was around 110 lbs and I think 200 watts.
When I quit that band I literally could barely sing anymore from all the 2nd hand smoke and 8 set weekends. No one was happier with at least that development of society than I was, smoke free environments to sing in!

So at least that aspect of society is greatly improved from 30 years ago. Smokers can no longer inflict their poisonous gasses upon our lungs and vocal chords.

 

[Jason Sypher]

It was horrible. My BL/Guitarist at the time was hands down the BEST guitarist I've ever played with even to this point. I was 28 when I joined that band and had been sidelined by getting off drugs for most of that decade (getting off is easy, staying off is a full time job for a while). So I was young and naive and wasn't sure what a general business bands mission should be. For a while it was great because I got tons of stage time. The turning point may have been where we drove up into the town of Fleischmans, NY one afternoon to play a private Mexican christening for BLs co-workers for basically nothing ($25 per man) and then we drove to Kingston to play our house gig at the Holiday inn. All that singing and schlepping to do 3 gigs in 24 hours (12 sets!) in smoky environments. Keep in mind my 90s era Ampeg 410 was around 110 lbs and I think 200 watts.
When I quit that band I literally could barely sing anymore from all the 2nd hand smoke and 8 set weekends. No one was happier with at least that development of society than I was, smoke free environments to sing in!

So at least that aspect of society is greatly improved from 30 years ago. Smokers can no longer inflict their poisonous gasses upon our lungs and vocal chords.

That sounds rough! Kicking drugs, Holiday Inns….hauling heavy cabinets around in smoke filled clubs. People sometimes glorify that era but we know it wasn’t all that. Lots of aspects of playing music have improved. Re-reading this whole thread I realize that it truly is the trenches out there. I grew up in Portland OR and I do remember some of the vibe people talk about here, trying to find good players who have decent personalities and a strong work ethic. It’s brutal out there. I remember meeting “older” musicians at that time and they all seemed kind of washed up, bitter and somewhat seedy. Drugs were everywhere. I knew I didn’t want to end up like that so I kind of side-stepped all of that. Went to college in Eugene, met some great players, no drugs, nice people, rehearsed two-three times a week until we were crazy tight. We played originals and some choice covers (RHCP, Fishbone, Hendrix, Living Color, Commodores). Started gigging and quickly became THE band in town. Played gigs for $300/man (my rent was $205). We were livin’! Realized that could be a dead end. Moved to Berkeley. Snuck into the music school. Got an upright bass. Joined a band with Vijay Iyer. Jammed with Pharaoh Sanders on Sundays. Moved to New Orleans. Busked, came up in the clubs. Played bass in four or five bands. Learned a ton. Made a living. Moved to New York. Met some players. Busked. Got the Algonquin gig. Made a living. Etc etc. Hearing these stories of woe, I realize that all my moves, my willingness to change, keeping myself inspired, were vital to having the kind of musical life I’ve had. I always go where the players are. I sit on the sidelines and then eventually pick up the gigs. Look for like-minded folk and start gigging. Of course I still play benefits where the host doesn’t thank the band and tells us the food is off limits, I’m not living in a bubble, but I think my methodology has been pretty spot on for being a professional musician. I never went the Holiday Inn cover-band route. It would have killed my soul. I always just practiced hard and prepared, looking for opportunities, and when one presented itself, did whatever I had to do to take it. I never really worked day jobs, maybe a few freelance things during fallow periods. I lived cheaply and put myself in situations to be seen and heard. Many here know I went into jazz, then blues, then New Orleans music, then traditional folk musics. I started out a rock guy with original tunes but it seemed nearly impossible to make a living unless you got insanely lucky and met the right players. I did still put myself in markets where that might happen, but I could see early on that those super bands are one in a trillion. I remember Nirvana in the dive bars of Portland, Soundgarden, The Melvins. The REMs of the world are extremely special convergences. Metallica. Those were crazy flukes! I could could easily see that very few hit that lottery. So I went somewhat left and tried to develop as a player instead of being a band guy, looking for others to complete me. Now I meet a lot of people like that (most really). It’s a viable path to making a living playing music. The hopes of a band “making it” are pretty much extinct. But still bands occur. My Nashville buddies create bands like the Punch Brothers. But they all live where music is a living thing….

 

[LBS-bass]

I think I get where you’re coming from. The bar is pretty low these days and it’s not that they can’t do it, it’s that they won’t do it.

Yes, see the post above yours. Dripping with condescension, indeed. Condescension toward those who are willing to help a few folks lift their heads above the sea of complacency is, unfortunately, the accepted status quo here.

Instead of seeing things they could do better, they lick their wounds at the suggestion that they might not be doing as well as they could be while retreating further. That helps nobody but it seems to be the reactive versus proactive society we live in. But it's like addiction. You can't be helped if you're not willing to admit that you could be doing better.

As I said, it's pretty easy to just look around at what others are doing and figure out what you could be doing differently and better. But as we can see, the very idea of putting a little thought into this is scary to the point at which it draws aggressive derision from those who apparently are wearing the shoes that fit. I can't say what that looks like but I do know that people who don't wear those shoes don't come out with guns blazing to defend their absolute right to remain static. They do have that right, though.

And the funny thing is that it's all right with me. I've been giving my best secrets away here free of charge, and as long as people take a dim view toward my suggestions, I do better. I have no reason to share these things other than I think it could be helpful, but I do way better if people don't actually want the help.

So it's all good.

I think it's time to stop the freebies, anyway.

 

[LBS-bass]

I'm fond of saying that almost no band ever quit because their music sucked. Typically they don't get to the point of being a band if that's the case. More often than not, it's a personnel issue. Definitely have gotten more jaded to it over the years.

Currently trying to figure out a drummer that insists on practicing at his apartment (so he doesn't have to move his electric kit) instead of at the house shared by myself and the guitarist where we have enough gear that everyone but the drummer would only need to bring over extra gear if they wanted it. If that were it, I could still work with it. It was the comment that time changes and tempo changes mean a song isn't complete and that it's not real music (because the drummer can't play that kinda stuff). Of course, the obvious answer is fire them or quit, but I'm still having fun and the rest of the guys are good. Finding competent musicians in my podunk moo-cow flyover town is a challenge and they're good buddies with the drummer so I'll just keep jamming and looking.

That's pretty lame. An electric kit is pretty easy to move.

 

[Bass Viking]

The turning point may have been where we drove up into the town of Fleischmans, NY one afternoon to play a private Mexican christening for BLs co-workers for basically nothing ($25 per man)

Gotta love when the BL volunteers the band for peanuts so he can look good at work.

 

[gln1955]

Some posters in this thread just need to give it a rest already.

 

[Pacman]

The turning point may have been where we drove up into the town of Fleischmans, NY one afternoon to play a private Mexican christening for BLs co-workers for basically nothing ($25 per man) and then we drove to Kingston to play our house gig at the Holiday inn

You probably learned from that something that's non-negotiable for me. I don't accept a gig if I don't know what the pay is up front. And $25 isn't going to get me off the couch, let alone out of the house. The painful lessons are the ones that stick, right?

 

[51PRI]

You probably learned from that something that's non-negotiable for me. I don't accept a gig if I don't know what the pay is up front. And $25 isn't going to get me off the couch, let alone out of the house. The painful lessons are the ones that stick, right?

That's right. Fool me once...

 

[Killing Floor]

Wow, 27 pages and this thread has some sass!

When I was a teenager the music that brought people to the dance floor was different than the music that brings people to the floor today.

But that doesn’t stop every restaurant cover band from playing Brown Eyed Girl. And that doesn’t stop everyone in the club from wishing away that 4 minutes of their life.

 

[LBS-bass]

Wow, 27 pages and this thread has some sass!

When I was a teenager the music that brought people to the dance floor was different than the music that brings people to the floor today.

But that doesn’t stop every restaurant cover band from playing Brown Eyed Girl. And that doesn’t stop everyone in the club from wishing away that 4 minutes of their life.

They don't want to be told they're doing it wrong though.

Back in the 80's I was in a band that started every show with BEG. It was an easy song to soundcheck to, got the crowd in a fun mood, and was easy enough on us that it would eliminate any pre-game jitters anyone might be having.

I've never had a hatred for that song like some people do - it has its place - but I don't ever want to see it on a setlist again. It's not that it's a bad song, it's that it telegraphs an instant message to everyone who is there.

I don't care much for Van Morrison, period, but my current band does Wild Night and I think it works well. It's a good example of a song that can just veer a teensy bit away from the norm to get audiences happy about not having to hear BEG again.

BEG will get people up to dance, I suppose. Because what else are they going to do? They're there hoping to have a good time and this is a song that has the danceable elements. But it doesn't make for a memorable evening.

I know I said I wasn't going to talk about my philosophy of band success anymore. I'll try to spare y'all as I move forward. It's hard not to want to share positive stuff, though.

 

[Killing Floor]

They don't want to be told they're doing it wrong though.

Back in the 80's I was in a band that started every show with BEG. It was an easy song to soundcheck to, got the crowd in a fun mood, and was easy enough on us that it would eliminate any pre-game jitters anyone might be having.

I've never had a hatred for that song like some people do - it has its place - but I don't ever want to see it on a setlist again. It's not that it's a bad song, it's that it telegraphs an instant message to everyone who is there.

I don't care much for Van Morrison, period, but my current band does Wild Night and I think it works well. It's a good example of a song that can just veer a teensy bit away from the norm to get audiences happy about not having to hear BEG again.

BEG will get people up to dance, I suppose. Because what else are they going to do? They're there hoping to have a good time and this is a song that has the danceable elements. But it doesn't make for a memorable evening.

I know I said I wasn't going to talk about my philosophy of band success anymore. I'll try to spare y'all as I move forward. It's hard not to want to share positive stuff, though.

That’s my philosophy, Marty

 

[Lance Bunyon]

Brown Eyed Girl makes my eyes glaze over and my fingers have that "I've played this song 1500 times" muscle memory. I try and step out a little on the solo tho it's a terrible solo on the record.
What must be worse is to be that musician who had a half a day to construct a short solo and then hear it on the radio for another 5 decades. "I could have been so much more creative please make it stop!"

 

[Pocket Dave]

You guys hate BEG?

I'm convinced hell is a never ending blues jam where the host band has to back a constant rotation of hack guitarists who all want to play Hideaway.

 

[LBS-bass]

You guys hate BEG?

I'm convinced hell is a never ending blues jam where the host band has to back a constant rotation of hack guitarists who all want to play Hideaway.

I said I don’t hate it. I don’t want it in my set because it telegraphs to the audience that they are in for an evening of tired cover band songs.

 

[LBS-bass]

But yes, Hideaway is a good blues jam equivalent.

 

[Pocket Dave]

I said I don’t hate it. I don’t want it in my set because it telegraphs to the audience that they are in for an evening of tired cover band songs.

Kinda somewhat depends on the other tired cover band songs.

 

[Lance Bunyon]

Worst cover band I was in imploded 13 years ago. Almost entirely 90s grunge. So depressing. Front man was a functional alcoholic who verbally abused audience members a few times after getting more than halfway through a 5th of Sailor Jerry rum. We needed to pull a rock n roll intervention on him "you can't start drinking til the 3rd set". Went over like a lead dirigible. "No one ever mentioned my substance intake". Really? Dude you reach for your one hitter 30 times every rehearsal! Interesting cat. But the grunge was way depressing to play every weekend. The two guitarists pulled a coup and started a band out from under all us married guys. May have been the weirdest cover band I was ever in.

 

[Jason Sypher]

Worst cover band I was in imploded 13 years ago. Almost entirely 90s grunge. So depressing. Front man was a functional alcoholic who verbally abused audience members a few times after getting more than halfway through a 5th of Sailor Jerry rum. We needed to pull a rock n roll intervention on him "you can't start drinking til the 3rd set". Went over like a lead dirigible. "No one ever mentioned my substance intake". Really? Dude you reach for your one hitter 30 times every rehearsal! Interesting cat. But the grunge was way depressing to play every weekend. The two guitarists pulled a coup and started a band out from under all us married guys. May have been the weirdest cover band I was ever in.

You’re stories never fail to make me cringe but this one reminded me of a similarish experience. I played with a great singer in New Orleans, Butch Trivette. Ex-Vietnam, grew up in a gospel singing family, bid scar over his eye, huge Cheshire grin, big open chest voice, heart of gold, could sing anything and make it entirely his, alcoholic. I learned that Butch would sometimes drink a pint of vodka chased down with a bottle of YooHoo right before a gig and by the second set he’d be useless. I remember him once falling down in the middle of a song and just sitting there unable to do anything as the band played around him. Anyways. I used to get to the gig really early and find Butch and stay with him for a few hours and distract him so he wouldn’t drink. If I discovered that he already drank I would walk him around the block for as many times as it took to get him coherent.

 

[LBS-bass]

Kinda somewhat depends on the other tired cover band songs.

Not if they turn around and leave at this point.