Double Bass What's wrong with the E string ?

[turf3]

A double bass is not a bass guitar and will never sound like one. If you're enrolled in conservatory I assume any errors of right-hand technique would have been noticed. As DoubleMIDI said above, the corpus of a 3/4 double bass is simply too small to pump 45 Hz. Try a Spirocore Stark on the E and hope it doesn't choke the response.

Yeah, that's the thing. Too light a string doesn't impart enough energy to the top. Too heavy a string requires so much tension to reach pitch that it can't overcome the stresses in the top.

If "too light" and "too heavy" overlap, well, that probably means you've got my bass.

 

[KUNGfuSHERIFF]

Raised saddle may help.

 

[Lorenzo Ponce]

Would be interesting to hear what these guys have to say about it. Or a luthier with it in their hands.

IIRC, we've had previous threads in which folk commented that their E strings were less than what they hoped for. I have a Spiro under my EPs - yet am still underwhelmed.

People at the Conservatoire are great teachers, but instruments and maintenance are not that good. Instruments are never really setup unless they fall to pieces. But I have a great double bass luthier around the corner there so...

 

[Lorenzo Ponce]

Two basses in a row with a weak E?
Maybe that's your plucking technique.
Do you use the fingertips?
You may want to use more meat to pluck the strings.
Just a thought.

I think my plucking is right - although it will surely improve in time. I believe all the answers about low E inherent weakness due to physical limitations are correct

 

[Lorenzo Ponce]

My string heights G to E are 6, 7.5, 9, 10.5 to 11 mm. (Means gap between string and fingerboard at its end.)

Wow, I have toi check but 11mm on the E looks a lot higher than what I usually do. Got to strengthen may hands

 

[Lorenzo Ponce]

OK guys, so many answers I can't reply to everyone but a massive THANK YOU all.

In a nutshell, common wisdom here :

- go to the luthier check soundpost / bridge / saddle
- check sound from front is more balanced, either with a friend or recording with a mike
- get used to the inherent weakness of E due to physical limitations of a 3/4
- improve plucking if needed
- stick to the Spirocores, they are not the issue

Thanks again, fellow low freq freaks !

 

[Quentin MCB]

Hello fellow french jazz double bass player ! Has your teacher played your bass, and have you played his ? What's his opinion on it ?

 

[DoubleMIDI]

Wow, I have toi check but 11mm on the E looks a lot higher than what I usually do. Got to strengthen may hands

Even with Spiros I won‘t go lower than 5/6.5/8/9.5 mm.

Others may go down up to 5/6/7/8, but that needs very well planed fingerboard and is typically used with more amplification.

If you cannot grab the string because of low string action you can pluck below (south of) the fingerboard, but that might sound a bit too aggressive with Spiros and you loose the option to play softer closer to the middle of the string.

S42 on the 110 cm scale with an even higher action than I play now only worked for one set and then I couldn‘t get through the second one.
So, too high Isn‘t good either, so see your luthier, train your hands by raising the action in small increments and talk with your teacher about your problem. The training might take a few months.

If you don’t have an adjustable bridge a few layers of thin wood shims (that adapt to the top curvature) below the bridge feet are a good temporary workaround to try a higher action.

 

[Lorenzo Ponce]

Hello fellow french jazz double bass player ! Has your teacher played your bass, and have you played his ? What's his opinion on it ?

Hello there ! Well...I currently don't have a teacher - Jazz Conservatoire is only about learning jazz (theory and practice) and not instrument. However I know a few guys that are way better than I am and I'll ask them for sure

 

[DoubleMIDI]

Asking a more advanced player is a good idea, but best ask for a (few) lesson(s) so you can be sure not to harm your health by playing the bass. Best take your bass to that teacher (or him to you) for letting check it out.
At least a few lessons on DB is very important.

And get a high mirror so you can see your body, arms and bow (you need to do some bowing, at least for intonation) position to check that you do things right in between the lessons and after.

Filming can help too, but the feedback is a bit slow, so you already might have done things you shouldn't for some time until you detect it.

Online lessons are an option too, but more difficult for the teacher to see.
Start with you, your bass and your teacher in one room for the first few months.

 

[Francois Blais]

If the action is too low, there will be less room for the E to get more amplitude, so less volume.
I wouldn’t go lower than 10mm on my bass.

 

[Greg Clinkingbeard]

There are many variables, as I touched on earlier but there are very few hard truths in this business. Sure, the E string vibrating at about 41 is half an octave lower than the resonant frequency of most bass bodies, but that doesn’t always translate into it being weak. There’s the position, shape and tuning of the bassbar and it’s relationship to the post, and their relationships to the bridge. I’ve had basses with E strings well below 10mm (like 6-7mm) which nobody would consider to be weak. Unfortunately, the internet can’t solve this one.

 

[turf3]

If the action is too low, there will be less room for the E to get more amplitude, so less volume.
I wouldn't go lower than 10mm on my bass.

But you've got to pull hard enough to give the string that much amplitude; and the string/bass/tension has to be such that pulling that hard will actually generate the increased amplitude. I have something like 7-8 mm on the E string and no matter how hard I pull, I have NEVER had it slap against the fingerboard. Raising it, for me, on my bass with these strings, would simply be making notes harder to finger.

 

[Francois Blais]

It also depends on the amount of relief on the fingerboard. (scoop)

 

[billiard]

soundpost is too tight (long) or is in the wrong place.