What's your budget friendly live sound rig?

[Big Hoss]

Okay so I had a chance to get together with the guys this weekend and talk this out and the plan moving forward is...

#1. Continue to seek out a drummer. We kind of sort of technically have one-ish... Long story, a drummer friend has gotten fed up with the high pressure gigs and just wants a more casual feel, but he's a metal guy. We haven't been able to talk him into playing along at our speed yet... He is wanting to sit in with us for jams though, so we are making headway.... A bit more beer, some rum and I think he'll figure out it's about the music, and the hang, not about trying to make it big...

#2. Before anyone goes hating on this, remember, this is a freebie... My rhythm guitarist sourced up from his church a Behringer 18" powered sub. No clue the model, no real concern, it works well and can be pressed into service. It would appear they went with a different PA rig, and were offloading the Behringer stuff cheap. He managed to swap some work for the sub... Now if only he could swing that kind of a deal on a guitar amp!

So with his addition, that brings us to... (the items in blue are provided by other band members, the rest I own...)

X2442USB mixer.
12x4 100' snake
2 @ Harbinger Vari V2112 powered speakers
1 Behringer model unknown 18" powered sub. It has a built in cross over if that helps...
6 Nady SP5 Dynamic Mics
1 Behringer XM8500 Dynamic mic.
1 Shure SM58 Dynamic mic. Lead guitarists / vocalists mic.
1 Brand unknown telescoping boom mic stand.
3 Samson telescoping boom mic stands.
1 ProLine telescoping boom mic stand.
1 Behringer GTX-60 1x12 50 watt guitar combo amp.
1 Crate model unknown 1x12 wattage unknown but I suspect it is around 60 watts guitar combo amp. Just stupid loud for a 1x12.
2 Musicians Gear tilt back amp stands.
Fender Rumble V3 500 2x10 combo + 2x10 extension cab.
Crate full of cables, adapters, power cables etc...

Gig money, what we do make, needs to get prioritiezed, and the priority at this point is for...

As I will be keeping the PA speakers, my part of the gig budget that does not go to paying expenses directly (fuel, maintenance etc...) will go to...
#1. Selecting and purchasing a fitting pair of powered 12s. Requirements are as follows.
- Lightweight. None of us are young, so this is VERY important to us, almost more so than...
- High quality sound. This is a bit subjective, but it must not make us sound like junk.
- Reliability. I am willing to pay extra for reliability. I don't want to have to re-buy because some cheap component died..
- Affordability. Obviously if they are too expensive, I won't be able to afford them at all, but I am not looking at the bottom of the barrel either. I think we are in a good place where we don't have to rent and worry about the hassles with that.
At the point of having a new pair of mains in, I can relegate the Harbingers back to monitor status, keep reading...
#2. Selecting and purchasing a fitting subwoofer or pair of subwoofers. Much of the same requirements as the 12s above. Weight with a sub is almost understood to be a problem. This will HAVE to be a 2 man lift job to keep old geezer backs in order...

My band mates with their take have agreed their priorities will be.
#1. Upgrade / purchase new guitar amps. The Crate IS scary loud, but it is old as sin, and not in very good shape. Sometimes it doesn't power up without percussive assistance. And the Behringer is a loaner from me. He needs his own amp.
#2. Purchase a good mic (rhythm guitarist).
#3. Invest in good lighting / effects. (I have the PA, and some, but very little lighting / effects, they get to cough up for the lighting / effects).

We have 4 XLR inputs available for a drummer, if he or she needs more XLR inputs, they can provide a larger mixer to do so, or a mixer to daisy chain into an XLR on the main mixer... Perhaps down the road we would go with a high port density digital mixer, but that is a ways off...

 

[tbirdsp]

Before I got the Carvin LS1801 subs I had a single Behringer B1500D (I think) one, powered 15" version. It worked fine. The 18" one you have should be more than enough for adding some beef to the kick drum in smaller rooms.

 

[Big Hoss]

Before I got the Carvin LS1801 subs I had a single Behringer B1500D (I think) one, powered 15" version. It worked fine. The 18" one you have should be more than enough for adding some beef to the kick drum in smaller rooms.

Since it's not mine, I can't say what model it is. But yeah, I figure it should add the needed grunt for the kick... Assuming he didn't pick up a total blown POS in which case we reassess the situation and either recone, replace the speaker, or get back into the market for subs...

Sad thing, next gig on the schedule is a Cinco De Mayo party... Mostly my fault... Too busy turning hours at my regular job to hustle gigs...

 

[BigNotes]

For me the "cheap" is now 2 EV VLX 12Ps and one ELX 118p sub. Plus the other gear... PM 16p units. X32 Producer board. B 1320D monitors... Not inexpensive now that I think about it!

 

[Big Hoss]

Well, considering what has been spent, I feel pretty good about it. Given how "often" we gig. I just barf at the idea of blowing $10K or more on a PA rig... Just not cost effective for us.

 

[Frankjohnson]

I still use my Peavey 8600 and JBL 12s or Carvin 12s. its perfect for so many gigs. when I need a 2nd monitor channel and any more flexibility, i use the carvin RX1200L and may add subs, or not.......it is a pretty flexible unit. If I want to use the powered speakers I can, but don't have to - it has 4 400 watt amps built in. I have used it A LOT. they are not expensive setups. there are lots out there - the Peavey 8600 owes me NOTHING.........its been a workhorse. I think I paid $275 8 years ago. I have to believe it made me more than that. I still use it for a LOT of easy setup stuff. especially if I know I only need minimal coverage/support. In fact sometimes I just use it to put canned music downrange. It has a lot more usable power than a LOT of lesser units.

since you asked, I am not going to tippy toe - buy real power to use with your system. anything measured as "max" power is BS. quality of your speaker components is important. I have not used the ALTOs, but you said that they sounded good. My guess is checking out what you like/can afford, and A/Bing against what you know you need and can afford should help to put you where you need to be. Maybe not where you want to be - but where you can afford to be.

If that makes sense

 

[MakoMan]

The Behringer sub, unless it is completely shot, should definitely add some boom to the kick if you need to mic the drums. With some good mains, you should have a pretty decent sounding system. I have no experience with the Harbingers myself, but if they sound as decent as you say in FOH they should make fine monitors and only 35 lbs each... not bad.
You're right, the guitar amps definitely need an upgrade LOL! I know that Crate! I believe we have the same one in our rehearsal space. It is wicked loud and has the same powering up issue. We only use it if one of the guitarists is too lazy to haul an amp to rehearsal.
BTW for the occasions where you need something more than the Behringer you can always rent subs. That's what our band does. We've found for the amount of times we actually need to use our own subs it was much cheaper to rent than to buy.

 

[Big Hoss]

The Behringer sub, unless it is completely shot, should definitely add some boom to the kick if you need to mic the drums. With some good mains, you should have a pretty decent sounding system. I have no experience with the Harbingers myself, but if they sound as decent as you say in FOH they should make fine monitors and only 35 lbs each... not bad.
You're right, the guitar amps definitely need an upgrade LOL! I know that Crate! I believe we have the same one in our rehearsal space. It is wicked loud and has the same powering up issue. We only use it if one of the guitarists is too lazy to haul an amp to rehearsal.
BTW for the occasions where you need something more than the Behringer you can always rent subs. That's what our band does. We've found for the amount of times we actually need to use our own subs it was much cheaper to rent than to buy.

The Harbinger is what it is... Not great, not awful. Certainly not ultra hi fi. Perfect for blues and country...

 

[Big Hoss]

The Behringer sub, unless it is completely shot, should definitely add some boom to the kick if you need to mic the drums. With some good mains, you should have a pretty decent sounding system. I have no experience with the Harbingers myself, but if they sound as decent as you say in FOH they should make fine monitors and only 35 lbs each... not bad.
You're right, the guitar amps definitely need an upgrade LOL! I know that Crate! I believe we have the same one in our rehearsal space. It is wicked loud and has the same powering up issue. We only use it if one of the guitarists is too lazy to haul an amp to rehearsal.
BTW for the occasions where you need something more than the Behringer you can always rent subs. That's what our band does. We've found for the amount of times we actually need to use our own subs it was much cheaper to rent than to buy.

LOL... I am starting to wonder now if that power up issue on that crate amp is actually a factory feature instead of a flaw...

Since we presently have no drummer just a drum synth the concern is putting the drums through the Harbingers or even through my Rumble since its not designed to carry kick drum. That's why we were considering a sub anyway.

 

[Justice]

have you see this?

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[Big Hoss]

I've seen those Ion PA speakers at Sams Club, they have one, or at least had one out at the El Dorado Sams Club in Friendswood for a while... If that is representative of the sound quality then I am going to have to pass. I am not ultra hi fi picky, but those things had no bass or mid range at all... Kind of the same that I noticed from the older Harbinger APS12...

It's entirely possible that the demo unit at Sams is just trashed from in store demo abuse, kind of like a table saw at Home Depot would be... I would absolutely have to demo out the units in question before I even gave them more than a moments consideration...

Might be worth it to DJ a beach party where you didn't give a rats behind what happened to your gear...

 

[Justice]

Music Group has these on eBay right now. manufacturer refurbished with 3 year factory warranty.

Behringer Eurolive B912NEO 1260 Watt 12" powered speaker

 

[Big Hoss]

Music Group has these on eBay right now. manufacturer refurbished with 3 year factory warranty.

Behringer Eurolive B912NEO 1260 Watt 12" powered speaker

I always wonder what manufacturer refurbished really means. I wonder if these are defaults sent back and fixed, or if they are just units that the original purchaser didn't care for and sent them back...

My GTX60 does what it needs to do, It's no twin reverb by any stretch of the imagination, but compared to other amps of similar spec, it holds its own, and honestly to me it sounds better than better repsected brands. (I am no Line 6 fan... Sorry...). Mine was an Open Box, meaning either returned by Original purchaser because they didn't like it, or maybe a demo... Either way, it works fine and saved me a TON of money (Cost me the same as the SX 10 watt guitar amp after shipping)..

Guitarist did manage to swing the subwoofer to the practice space and gave us a chance to try it out a bit. It works. Gives plenty of kick. We should be good to go for a while... A long while. Certainly not where we want to be in the long run, but at least we are in a position now where we aren't needing to upgrade just to be able to carry a gig...

 

[Justice]

you could go SUPER old school

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Although I will say, the PA mains at the San Leon Beach Pub are some super old JBL's but our friends said we sounded pretty good on Saturday out front. monitors were a bit hard for me and the sound guy liked to wander off from the board. I turned my monitor up in between sets myself at the board, lol

 

[Big Hoss]

you could go SUPER old school

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Although I will say, the PA mains at the San Leon Beach Pub are some super old JBL's but our friends said we sounded pretty good on Saturday out front. monitors were a bit hard for me and the sound guy liked to wander off from the board. I turned my monitor up in between sets myself at the board, lol

LOL... I think we really should just get up off our arses and start digging for club gigs. Hard to explain why, but for personal reasons for the guitarist, we are trying to avoid the bar scene... Some of the clubs around here do provide FOH... The one that shocked me that doesn't is Sherlocks Pub on Bay Area... Not a danged bit of PA in the house there...

Then again, I really miss Seabrook Beach Club... That place was always fun back in the day...

 

[Justice]

LOL... I think we really should just get up off our arses and start digging for club gigs. Hard to explain why, but for personal reasons for the guitarist, we are trying to avoid the bar scene... Some of the clubs around here do provide FOH... The one that shocked me that doesn't is Sherlocks Pub on Bay Area... Not a danged bit of PA in the house there...

Then again, I really miss Seabrook Beach Club... That place was always fun back in the day...

I understand "personal reasons". I'm playing with two recovering alcoholics. And they are actually doing really well.

 

[Big Hoss]

I understand "personal reasons". I'm playing with two recovering alcoholics. And they are actually doing really well.

Don't want to go into it too much as it's not my thing, but one of my band members has a struggle in that area, and we chose as a band to steer clear of that, and the attendant drama that comes with drunks particularly in bars... Private parties are much harder for the "hired help" to get away with imbibing in the adult liquid refreshment, and so the temptation is taken off the table for the most part. It limits us I know, but it is a choice we made as a group, and honestly, it keeps me from ending up with too many gigs while working too many long shifts at my job while working too much on my home remodeling while... you get the point... It goes a long way to helping with balance. Now if I had any desire, or inkling we could really do something decent with this, then the bar gigs come into play, but there needs to be some serious consideration on that part...

FWIW, Not judging anyone on that score. When I was with my ex I was WELL motivated to drink far too much far too often... But for the grace of God go I right?

 

[DirtDog]

Cross posted here: PA (vocals) need an upgrade... and figured it was salient to this discussion as well...we're a $500 a night bar band playing about 25 shows a year with a couple of fair/festivals in there. After the debacle with our last BL last summer (documented here: Enough is enough (Band PA related)), we went on without this guy and have been using our old practice PA for gigs. It's fine, but it's got it's limits, of course...so onwards!
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I've slowly been considering my budget rig options and have started pulling together the pieces. Intending to replace an aging mixer-in-a -box and old/heavy passive speakers/monitors PA system.

Got a good deal on a Presonus 16.4.2 a couple of weeks ago. Looks like a pretty powerful mixer yet seems pretty easy to use. Still getting to know it at home right now. Also just picked a pair of slightly used EV ZLX15P speakers to use as mains. Altogether, paid just under $2100 Canadian.

Now on the lookout for powered monitors. Shopped around and don't care the form factor for most I've seen that can do the job but the Behringer F1120D seems like a decent fit, but will continue to troll the used market. Add in new speaker cabling, stands, covers, etc., that'll be another $1K. Already own mics, stands, cables, etc.

So, about $3100 all together? Figure we'll rent subs as required which might be 2-3x per year.

Interestingly enough - this system will get us way more than halfway past where we were last summer at about 20% of the cost! Go figure.

 

[DirtDog]

Here was my "work area" on Saturday night - first night out driving the new PA system (Presonus 16.4.2 + EV ZLX15P (mains) + Mackie Thump12s (monitors). Worked pretty well for a small bar 150 capacity...a few bugs to work out in my setup and workflow but a vast improvement over what we have been using over the last few months. Total cost for this system: $3000 (Canadian). Nice thing is the entire PA rig - and all my bass gear - fits into the cargo hold of my Subaru Forester.

 

[modulusman]

If you want a decent Cheap speaker look at the Yamaha DBR series. They have a 7 year warranty and right now through April you can get a mail in Rebate. The DBR10 is really light if weight is a concern.