When Did Ampeg Start Putting Tweeters In Their 810 Cabs?

[_HunterB_]

Im trying to approximate a vintage SVT sound as best I can, so I'm trying to figure out what frequencies to EQ out. Anybody have a good timeline?

 

[Buster Brown]

I am going to go out there and throw out that I "believe" that it was either 85 or 90 but I am no expert - Jimmy M would have the exact date most likely.....

 

[sharkbait130]

None of my 8 10's have tweeters in them. 2005 to 2007.

 

[Nighttrain1127]

My Brand new Heritage 810 AV does not have a tweeter

 

[Wasnex]

Im trying to approximate a vintage SVT sound as best I can, so I'm trying to figure out what frequencies to EQ out. Anybody have a good timeline?

Two ideas that are totally unrelated .

AFAIK Ampeg only put tweeters in the PR-810H, which is a pretty obscure cab.

I believe the response of the 10s in the 810E go up to about 5K, but because of destructive interference that occurs due to the way the drivers are array it really sounds more like they start cutting off around 3K.

Also your going to get a progress boost as the frequency goes down from acoustic summing between the drivers. Almost perfect acoustic summing occurs for frequencies where the drivers are spaced within about 1/4 wavelength. The idea is you will get summing between adjacent pairs of drivers first. Then as the frequency goes low you will get summing between non adjacent drivers.

First acoustic summing occurs here (driver pairs connected with red lines):

As the frequency goes down you get a second acoustic summing here (driver pairs connected with yellow lines):

And finally as the frequency goes even lower you get a third acoustic summing here (driver pairs connected with green lines):

AFAIK, the 810E starts rolling off at about 12dB/octave somewhere around 85hz; so it does not put out a lot of subbass.

IMHO close mic'ing an 810E sounds pretty nice and I hear way more highs than I perceive on stage with one of these cabs.

I would suggest a gentle broadband boost centered around about 400hz. Just a db or so.

 

[JimmyM]

Cutting off lows at 60 hz and highs at 5k always works for me. Then do what you want with the middle stuff.

 

[Gearhead17]

Ampeg 810HPC - 205lbs and 1" drivers on each 10" speaker? https://ampeg.com/pdf/SVT810HPC.pdf
The Ampeg PR810HLF - Another heavy cabinet, had a tweeter on it too.

 

[beans-on-toast]

Look at the frequency specs for the amp and cab.

 

[Jackcrow]

Ampeg 810HPC - 205lbs and 1" drivers on each 10" speaker? https://ampeg.com/pdf/SVT810HPC.pdf
The Ampeg PR810HLF - Another heavy cabinet, had a tweeter on it too.

Hey I have one of those. The tweeters are only on 2 of the speakers though.

As far as I know, “normal” 810’s don’t have tweeters.

 

[Mastermold]

No tweets!

 

[baxter_x]

The only 810 Ampeg I know with tweeter is the PR810HLF. I whish I could try one of those but it's been discontinued pretty quickly . Probably due to its tremendous weight.

 

[Oatis]

None of my old SVT's had a tweeter. I wonder if the same h.f.horn (or tweeter) can be used for a 410 and a 810 ? Ashdown do this with the 410ABM and the 810ABM . Is a 210 tweeter or 410 tweeter loud enough to match a 810 ?

 

[LetItGrowTone]

Two ideas that are totally unrelated .

AFAIK Ampeg only put tweeters in the PR-810H, which is a pretty obscure cab.

I believe the response of the 10s in the 810E go up to about 5K, but because of destructive interference that occurs due to the way the drivers are array it really sounds more like they start cutting off around 3K.

Also your going to get a progress boost as the frequency goes down from acoustic summing between the drivers. Almost perfect acoustic summing occurs for frequencies where the drivers are spaced within about 1/4 wavelength. The idea is you will get summing between adjacent pairs of drivers first. Then as the frequency goes low you will get summing between non adjacent drivers.

First acoustic summing occurs here (driver pairs connected with red lines):
View attachment 4165169
As the frequency goes down you get a second acoustic summing here (driver pairs connected with yellow lines):
View attachment 4165170
And finally as the frequency goes even lower you get a third acoustic summing here (driver pairs connected with green lines):
View attachment 4165171

AFAIK, the 810E starts rolling off at about 12dB/octave somewhere around 85hz; so it does not put out a lot of subbass.

IMHO close mic'ing an 810E sounds pretty nice and I hear way more highs than I perceive on stage with one of these cabs.

I would suggest a gentle broadband boost centered around about 400hz. Just a db or so.

That's a very nice post @Wasnex, thanks.
(Of course there are lots of pairings on various diagonals too. Very complicated.)

Here is something I haven't heard mentioned. I guess (because I'm not an expert) that:
- there must be a phase difference between xHz directly from the speaker, and the additional xHz resulting from speaker coupling.
- this error has some relationship (some proportionality) to the distance between the two speakers.
- and so, I guess that each of these many acoustic couplings (between speaker pairs at different separation distances) introduces its own phase difference.

What is the (usually 6-string guitar) effect that does that, and sounds like a thickening (usually in the highs)? Chorus?
I've never heard that effect (whatever it is) used on bass.
I guess that the thickening from the 8x10 could be likened, in part, to an effect of that type.

But a lot more is happening too:
Waves leave two different speakers and don't just intersect (where they might add), but also pass through each other (because they aren't planar waves; the portions that interact must have come from the speaker at an angle), and if they pass through each other there must be other complex additions and subtractions happening.

I wonder if anyone understands it completely (enough), I mean in terms of physics or engineering.
But of course, another form of understanding happens when we stand in front of it, and the brain knows something special is happening.

@_HunterB_ , good luck with the EQing, but you'll be missing all of the above.

 

[JeezyMcNuggles]

Im trying to approximate a vintage SVT sound as best I can, so I'm trying to figure out what frequencies to EQ out. Anybody have a good timeline?

They don't put tweeters in their 810s

 

[Gearhead17]

They don't put tweeters in their 810s

Did you read the previous posts? The 810e units don't have them, but a few other 810's did.

 

[wmhill]

Did you read the previous posts? The 810e units don't have them, but a few other 810's did.

It's easier for some folks to just spout off their "facts" than to actually keep up with the conversation.

 

[Wasnex]

That's a very nice post @Wasnex, thanks.
(Of course there are lots of pairings on various diagonals too. Very complicated.)

Here is something I haven't heard mentioned. I guess (because I'm not an expert) that:
- there must be a phase difference between xHz directly from the speaker, and the additional xHz resulting from speaker coupling.
- this error has some relationship (some proportionality) to the distance between the two speakers.
- and so, I guess that each of these many acoustic couplings (between speaker pairs at different separation distances) introduces its own phase difference.

What is the (usually 6-string guitar) effect that does that, and sounds like a thickening (usually in the highs)? Chorus?
I've never heard that effect (whatever it is) used on bass.
I guess that the thickening from the 8x10 could be likened, in part, to an effect of that type.

But a lot more is happening too:
Waves leave two different speakers and don't just intersect (where they might add), but also pass through each other (because they aren't planar waves; the portions that interact must have come from the speaker at an angle), and if they pass through each other there must be other complex additions and subtractions happening.

I wonder if anyone understands it completely (enough), I mean in terms of physics or engineering.
But of course, another form of understanding happens when we stand in front of it, and the brain knows something special is happening.

@_HunterB_ , good luck with the EQing, but you'll be missing all of the above.

I think it's possible to model what's going on. But you have lot's of interaction between lot's of drivers--keep in mind I only showed the vertical and horizontal relationship, and there are also diagonal relationships that come into play.

Here is a much more involved post where I tried to explore this subject: 4x10 cab need some advice

 

[_HunterB_]

Cutting off lows at 60 hz and highs at 5k always works for me. Then do what you want with the middle stuff.

Thanks Jimmy! That worked really well. Saw your name and got inspired to break out my VT bass pedal again. I saw you post a setting somewhere with the character and treble both completely off/at 7:00. Is that supposed to simulate channel 1 on the svt? I liked it way more than I thought I would, I’ve always avoided putting the character anywhere below 11:00.

 

[_HunterB_]

Two ideas that are totally unrelated .

AFAIK Ampeg only put tweeters in the PR-810H, which is a pretty obscure cab.

I believe the response of the 10s in the 810E go up to about 5K, but because of destructive interference that occurs due to the way the drivers are array it really sounds more like they start cutting off around 3K.

Also your going to get a progress boost as the frequency goes down from acoustic summing between the drivers. Almost perfect acoustic summing occurs for frequencies where the drivers are spaced within about 1/4 wavelength. The idea is you will get summing between adjacent pairs of drivers first. Then as the frequency goes low you will get summing between non adjacent drivers.

First acoustic summing occurs here (driver pairs connected with red lines):
View attachment 4165169
As the frequency goes down you get a second acoustic summing here (driver pairs connected with yellow lines):
View attachment 4165170
And finally as the frequency goes even lower you get a third acoustic summing here (driver pairs connected with green lines):
View attachment 4165171

AFAIK, the 810E starts rolling off at about 12dB/octave somewhere around 85hz; so it does not put out a lot of subbass.

IMHO close mic'ing an 810E sounds pretty nice and I hear way more highs than I perceive on stage with one of these cabs.

I would suggest a gentle broadband boost centered around about 400hz. Just a db or so.

This is a really cool answer, thanks man! I never knew any of that.

 

[JimmyM]

Thanks Jimmy! That worked really well. Saw your name and got inspired to break out my VT bass pedal again. I saw you post a setting somewhere with the character and treble both completely off/at 7:00. Is that supposed to simulate channel 1 on the svt? I liked it way more than I thought I would, I’ve always avoided putting the character anywhere below 11:00.

Sorry bro, but I've never used that setting that I can recall. If you want a fairly dark sound, that's probably a good setting that I imagine would come fairly close to setting an SVT's knobs at noon, although it still may be a little dark for my tastes, as I tend to jack the mids and treble when I use an SVT. Not too crazy high but just enough to give it a very slight midscoop and maybe a little extra bottom if I need it. Anyway, no wrong answers here.