When guitarists think they know the correct notes for ya

[bumperbass]

Yep. Plus this is in the Real Book, so readily available.

Depending on the source, some/most sheets are just plain wrong. The Real Book? I've been under a rock, I guess.

 

[bumperbass]

I'll stress this part again, "If I play it his way, I am not a full member of the rhythm section". If I'm jumping when he jumps, there's no flow....just a bunch of bunny rabbits jumping around.

 

[easyj]

I'm going to guess that he played some alternate arrangement of the song years ago, with his former bass player, and he thinks that his version is the correct one. I would suggest to him: Let's listen to the original recording of the song. Then, you can tell him that this is the target you are trying to hit. If you are going to change the song from the original, you are entitled to ask him his reasons for doing so.

If it were me, I would just tell him: "Don't go changing"

 

[buldog5151bass]

When in doubt, get the sheet music. Shuts them down every time. I'm not going to argue with band members when I know they're playing something wrong.

The sheet music is not always accurate either. Sometimes it is just some random arranger's version, hired by the company, and it is his/her ear as well.

 

[Bunk McNulty]

One of the guitarists in my band took music courses while in college. He has very big ears, and he's often right. So I take his advice, more often than not. I have often posted about "putting your ego in your pocket." This is one example. If his suggestion doesn't work, we'll both hear it from our BL, and we'll adjust accordingly. I refuse to get bent out of shape about it.

 

[Matthijs]

From a pure arrangement perspective he has a very good point. If, in an arrangement, particular chord inversions are required, and his voicing has the correct note in the bass, then yes you should also play that note. Even if his voicings do not include the bass note as the lowest note, you should, as the bass player, respect the arrangement. If the arrangement has a chord, say Cm, in second inversion then you should be playing G in the bass as the lowest pitch even (or especially) if nobody else is. If you put a C in the bass as the lowest note then the chord is in root position and you are essentially blowing over the changes. Same goes for keyboard and anyone else.
YMMV, but maybe you shouldn't be so quick to dismiss...

True, except often guitarists or keys think their harmonic part is the arrangement, when in sometimes the arrangement gave them a just a part of the full harmony. I.e. to emphasize a specific point in the interaction between the melody and a bass-counterpoint.

 

[SteveCS]

True, except often guitarists or keys think their harmonic part is the arrangement, when in sometimes the arrangement gave them a just a part of the full harmony. I.e. to emphasize a specific point in the interaction between the melody and a bass-counterpoint.

Quite true, so the more knowledgeable we are as musicians, and not just bass players, the better our chances of defending our position...

 

[Maryvillebass]

When i am in doubt, i go to YouTube.... almost always there is some bass player who loves the song that has recorded a cover, and many times they add some tasty licks that you can steal. I just watched a video for this song, and a portly dude played the heck out of it.... copy that dude.

 

[Chrisk-K]

I mean, he thinks I should play the same bass note for every one of his chords

I agree with the guitarist. On "Just the Way You Are" the bass's role is to support the song and other melodic and chordal instruments. The bass should not make the listen pay attention to bass.

 

[Wisebass]

A bass player has a bass brain, and a guitar player no brain.

fixed it for you

Hi bumperbass

his version is on overload

Just get the recording (original version) and figure it out together.

The advantage of mp3 is, that you don 't have to push the cassette recorder 's rewind button,

like in the "good old days".

Progress is wonderful sometimes

Wise(b)ass

 

[lfmn16]

If a guitar player is explaining what bass line to play with "go here, then go here" I'd be suspicious. I shouldn't be that way, but sometimes I am.

I'm not saying it NEVER happens, but it is very rare that a guitar player will know the correct bass line. I usually say, "I'm playing it like the original; if you want to play it differently, that's OK, but I just want to make sure you know what you're asking for." I don't say it snarky or with attitude and usually they say "Oh" and I get back to playing it like the original.

If someone is being a jerk I'll say, "I don't tell you how to play long boring leads, don't tell me how to play the bass."

 

[DWBass]

The sheet music is not always accurate either. Sometimes it is just some random arranger's version, hired by the company, and it is his/her ear as well.

Guess I've been lucky. I typically use Musicnotes.com and they have been spot on.

 

[electracoyote]

I DID try his version. Yeah, the parts he suggests do indeed fit, but to me, it loses it's focus. He's all over the place. That song has a sort of slow 'shuffle' rhythm and his version is on overload, IMO.

Here is a lead sheet version that is close (I just sang and played it for my wife on guitar). Pretty faithful, any errors are relatively small and would probably be insignificant for the general audience, and you can always use your ears and edit it to be more "correct."

Billy Joel - Just The Way You Are (Chords)

Notice the alternate roots (a.k.a. "slash chords")? Many guitar players miss these, even though they usually should be playing the alternate roots in their chord shapes too. They sometimes just play the triad and expect the bass player to play the root of the triad (i.e. "play a D bass over my D chord"). Sometimes the song asks for an alternate root (i.e. "play an F# bass over my D chord, also written D/F#"). I've seen guitar players listening for and expecting the root of the triad (D) tell the bass player he's wrong for playing the (more correct and musical) alternate bass note (F#).

If you are copying this version below, passing notes and all, you are playing it right. Don't dumb it down for your guitar player; make him learn it as recorded, in the way it was originally arranged in order for both parts to fit together seamlessly. As much fun as it is to re-write a classic, it often fails to match the original, and when the clever re-write arrangement goes south, time to rely on the arrangement found on the most popular hit recording.

 

[buldog5151bass]

Guess I've been lucky. I typically use Musicnotes.com and they have been spot on.

All depends on the source and the arranger. I remember when that song actually came out. I purchase the "official" sheet music (with the album cover on the front page). It was an arrangement - not what Joel was actually playing.

 

[Wfrance3]

Tell guitarist that would make the root notes transpose to a diminished flat 5 mixolodian scale that has specific dissonance. If he calls bs on you he's got enough game to have an opinion. If he doesn't then you have control
Of the situation.

 

[BassGuyFL]

For reference I play in a Billy Joel tribute band and have played this song hundreds of times. The bass line stays fairly consistent outside of a few passing tones and some notes played in a different octave for effect. Just out of curiosity what parts is the guitar player playing? The only guitar in the song is an acoustic. As is most of Billy's music the piano or in this case the Fender Rhodes is carrying the song and the guitar is just accompaniment.

This video is 100% correct.

 

[JPaulGeddy]

Two songs where I've had major arguments with guitarists (bassists).

Crazy Little Thing Called Love ('there goes my baby... Leaves me in a cool-cool *sweat*' - that note)

Black Horse & the Cherry Tree - chorus progression.

 

[electracoyote]

For reference I play in a Billy Joel tribute band and have played this song hundreds of times. The bass line stays fairly consistent outside of a few passing tones and some notes played in a different octave for effect. Just out of curiosity what parts is the guitar player playing? The only guitar in the song is an acoustic. As is most of Billy's music the piano or in this case the Fender Rhodes is carrying the song and the guitar is just accompaniment.

This video is 100% correct.

That was beautifully done.

It's not such a hard song on bass, a bit more challenging for guitar players, especially those who don't often play some of the tricky chord extensions and alternate root chords.

The guitar on the original hit is a gently strummed acoustic mixed a little low (though you can hear it very clearly during the break at 3:51), but it absolutely perfectly emulates the chord progression Billy plays on the Rhodes, only without some of the keyboard flourishes. If you happen to play this in a band with no keys, that guitar part gets pumped up and has to be accurate in order for the bass line and chord prog to match well.

It's a pseudo-jazz pop piece, and some guitar players who learn this song a little too fast are very tempted to inject or substitute some chords that don't match the recording, and then if the bass player learns it as carefully and accurately as you did, the bass and guitar will clash.

It's just one of those songs, the way it was written and recorded, that's best for bass and chord players to learn and play accurately to the hit recorded version or you could easily have disagreement or a mess on your hands.

 

[bassman10096]

I'll stress this part again, "If I play it his way, I am not a full member of the rhythm section". If I'm jumping when he jumps, there's no flow....just a bunch of bunny rabbits jumping around.

"Bunny rabbits." That's a great way to put it. I've always used, "...makes the bass sound like elephants dancing."

 

[matthewbrown]

So, in essence, you play "Just the way You Are" just the way you were.

I can't say I like The Way We Were any better than Just the Way You Are.