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when is a "beater" worth upgrading? *UPDATE - useless truss rod!*
- Thread starter Argali
- Start date
buldog5151bass
Kibble, milkbones, and P Basses. And redheads.
Think about it.
If the body appeals to you use it. It is probably made from the same stuff as millions of other basses. If the neck fits you and is stable then you are already ahead of the game.
Everything else can be experimented with. Pickups can be found pretty cheap. Bridges, tuners, all that stuff can be picked up piece at a time. If you don't like them save them for another bass or trade for different ones.
The nut may be no big deal. If it is a standard width you can find pre-cut in either flat or curved styles. all you have to do is get height correct. 7 bucks.
Try it. You may create a terrific bass in small steps and learn a ton along the way.
My main bass started like that.
If the body appeals to you use it. It is probably made from the same stuff as millions of other basses. If the neck fits you and is stable then you are already ahead of the game.
Everything else can be experimented with. Pickups can be found pretty cheap. Bridges, tuners, all that stuff can be picked up piece at a time. If you don't like them save them for another bass or trade for different ones.
The nut may be no big deal. If it is a standard width you can find pre-cut in either flat or curved styles. all you have to do is get height correct. 7 bucks.
Try it. You may create a terrific bass in small steps and learn a ton along the way.
My main bass started like that.
Let's say you have a $300 dollar bass, and you're thinking of $200 worth of upgrades. Go to your local music store(s) and play all the 500 dollar basses. If your bass at home "speaks to you" more than any of them, go for it - it is a 500 dollar bass. If you covet one of those basses you played (covet is the biblical word for lust/GAS), then no - don't do it.
Keep the "leftover" hardware for the possibility that one day you lust for something else that you'll want to upgrade.
Keep the "leftover" hardware for the possibility that one day you lust for something else that you'll want to upgrade.
Beaters are my favorite thing to hack on! Who wants to jack up a $2,000 bass or (worse yet) some priceless vintage specimen?
I look at a cheap "beater" guitar as a blank canvas and "What have I got to lose?"
Case in point is an old Hondo P-Bass copy I have. The seller considered it "Junk" so I was able to pick it up off EBay for around $25.
I stripped it down completely and built this incredible monster of a fret-less P-Bass with an incredible wooden "upright" tone that makes owners of boutique level instruments covetous!
They are blown away when I tell them what I have invested in it!
I look at a cheap "beater" guitar as a blank canvas and "What have I got to lose?"
Case in point is an old Hondo P-Bass copy I have. The seller considered it "Junk" so I was able to pick it up off EBay for around $25.
I stripped it down completely and built this incredible monster of a fret-less P-Bass with an incredible wooden "upright" tone that makes owners of boutique level instruments covetous!
They are blown away when I tell them what I have invested in it!
If it were my bass, I'd try to do a complete setup with good strings and go over all the electronics, fixing any bad connections and so on. I wouldn't replace anything until I was done with that process and took stock of what actually hindered proper setup, which might just be less than you expect.
Otto
Otto
As long as you're willing to accept the fact that your mods aren't going to make a $200 bass into a bass worth $700 if you sink $500 worth of mods into it, then it's fine.
The heart and soul of a bass is in the neck. If the neck is good, strong, straight, adjustable and feels good in your hand you have something to work with.
Theres nothing you can add that will overcome a bad neck.
Theres nothing you can add that will overcome a bad neck.
If I like the feel of a bass, even an El Cheapo, I enjoy doing some upgrades.
I generally start with a new premium wiring harness and jack with new pots, wires, etc. which typically runs $30-ish. Then I swap out the pickup(s). Obviously replacement pickups run the gamut in price from $25 (used, most likely) to a couple hundred. Depends on what you want. For a P-bass copy, the options are great in number.
After that, I upgrade (IF necessary) the nut (sometimes this only requires some filing or adjusting, but I usually replace cheap plastic nuts) and then go for the bridge and tuners. Again, only if necessary on these hardware components.
I consider it a blast and if you can use a soldering iron and do the work yourself, even better, but I have upgraded/modded a few "Asian off-brand" and lower-level Squier P basses several times and if the electronics are the main thing in need of an upgrade, you can easily do that for under $100.
Also, new strings and a good setup can do wonders for an old beater...really bring it to life and make it a player.
Yes, you could save your $$$ and buy a new bass, but that could cost more and if you have any attachment to your El Cheapo, upgrading / modding / Frankensteining can be a lot of fun for many folks.
I generally start with a new premium wiring harness and jack with new pots, wires, etc. which typically runs $30-ish. Then I swap out the pickup(s). Obviously replacement pickups run the gamut in price from $25 (used, most likely) to a couple hundred. Depends on what you want. For a P-bass copy, the options are great in number.
After that, I upgrade (IF necessary) the nut (sometimes this only requires some filing or adjusting, but I usually replace cheap plastic nuts) and then go for the bridge and tuners. Again, only if necessary on these hardware components.
I consider it a blast and if you can use a soldering iron and do the work yourself, even better, but I have upgraded/modded a few "Asian off-brand" and lower-level Squier P basses several times and if the electronics are the main thing in need of an upgrade, you can easily do that for under $100.
Also, new strings and a good setup can do wonders for an old beater...really bring it to life and make it a player.
Yes, you could save your $$$ and buy a new bass, but that could cost more and if you have any attachment to your El Cheapo, upgrading / modding / Frankensteining can be a lot of fun for many folks.
As usual, JimmyM drops straight up wisdom. Even with a higher-end, more expensive bass, you should never expect that if you do any upgrades you are going to get that money back.
Big Hoss
Up note, down note, blue note, brown note...
- Sep 5, 2014
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When is anything worth upgrading? When you perceive the value of the item, to be worth the investment in upgrading. Only you can determine that.
Your statement "It feels nice, plays well" would lean me HEAVILY toward upgrading, but you counter weigh that with your concerns "I've put the bass on CL for cheap, but no one seems interested, as it's a no-namer really".
So, the question in reality is, is this a smart financial thing to do to upgrade this bass?
Probably not.
The other question that should be asked is. Will upgrading this bass net me the bass I want, at a price I can live with. I am guessing aside from the no name factor on it, the answer might just be yes. If that is the case, and you plan on playing it instead of selling it, then go for it and then play the frets off of that thing.
Your statement "It feels nice, plays well" would lean me HEAVILY toward upgrading, but you counter weigh that with your concerns "I've put the bass on CL for cheap, but no one seems interested, as it's a no-namer really".
So, the question in reality is, is this a smart financial thing to do to upgrade this bass?
Probably not.
The other question that should be asked is. Will upgrading this bass net me the bass I want, at a price I can live with. I am guessing aside from the no name factor on it, the answer might just be yes. If that is the case, and you plan on playing it instead of selling it, then go for it and then play the frets off of that thing.
Nice thing about souping up a beater is you can migrate the parts (bridge, pups, tuning machines) elsewhere if you wish.
I just picked up a Musicman SUB Bass on Reveb.com for $200.00. Put Grover Tuners, Hipshot bridge, and Duncan Pickup in it, and it makes a world of difference. Plus its a fun project.
Don't forget frets, intonation and truss rod. Those may not be easy or cheap fixes. If the frets are worn (beyond a crown and level), the neck won't adjust, or the intonation is way out of wack, the bass may have inherent flaws and will never be quite right. If all of that works and it sounds and feels good, I'd go for it. Good luck!
I would check the neck very thoroughly. If it's twisted that would be a no-go for me. I learned that the hard way on my first bass modification. I didn't realize that the neck was twisted before I replaced the tuners, the pickup and the bridge and filed the nut slots. I learned a lot working on it and I didn't buy expensive parts but the intonation is still so bad that I can't play it.
If the neck is good and it can be set-up quite well "as is" then you are probably good to go.
It's a nice challenge to see what you can do to improve things, but it's a bit of a double-edged sword for me because I'm so slow and am still figuring out stuff as I go along, so sometimes I get frustrated with the amount of time the guitar repair stuff takes.
What I've found is that results will vary depending on what you are starting with. I guess this is where the "polish a turd thing" comes in. Sometimes you're gonna get something playing awesome and then sometimes it's just going to have to be good enough.
My latest project is "good enough". There is something about the neck where I have to keep a lot of relief in it so that the notes ring out properly. It means that I can't get a really low string height. But, on the other hand, it stays in tune, the intonation is really good, and it sounds good too.
To keep it fun, I like to do adjustments by eyeballing and feel. I don't get into measuring string height or anything like that. There's no point if your project is turning out to be a "good enough" instrument.
I also don't get caught up in top-of-the-line replacement parts either. I'm cheap and I also can't hear the difference between a bone nut and a plastic nut, or high mass bridge vs. a thinner bridge, or a CTS pot vs. a generic Asian pot, or an expensive capacitor vs. a 50 cent capacitor.
For the most part, I've had good luck with generic parts from China, even pickups and tuners. Though, I must admit I did buy a set of 6 guitar tuners once that were worse than the ones I was replacing.
Good luck OP. If you choose to accept your upgrade mission, I hope that you will keep us updated.
If the neck is good and it can be set-up quite well "as is" then you are probably good to go.
It's a nice challenge to see what you can do to improve things, but it's a bit of a double-edged sword for me because I'm so slow and am still figuring out stuff as I go along, so sometimes I get frustrated with the amount of time the guitar repair stuff takes.
What I've found is that results will vary depending on what you are starting with. I guess this is where the "polish a turd thing" comes in. Sometimes you're gonna get something playing awesome and then sometimes it's just going to have to be good enough.
My latest project is "good enough". There is something about the neck where I have to keep a lot of relief in it so that the notes ring out properly. It means that I can't get a really low string height. But, on the other hand, it stays in tune, the intonation is really good, and it sounds good too.
To keep it fun, I like to do adjustments by eyeballing and feel. I don't get into measuring string height or anything like that. There's no point if your project is turning out to be a "good enough" instrument.
I also don't get caught up in top-of-the-line replacement parts either. I'm cheap and I also can't hear the difference between a bone nut and a plastic nut, or high mass bridge vs. a thinner bridge, or a CTS pot vs. a generic Asian pot, or an expensive capacitor vs. a 50 cent capacitor.
For the most part, I've had good luck with generic parts from China, even pickups and tuners. Though, I must admit I did buy a set of 6 guitar tuners once that were worse than the ones I was replacing.
Good luck OP. If you choose to accept your upgrade mission, I hope that you will keep us updated.
Agree with the "feels good in YOUR hands" part.
Example: Picked up a white Epi/Gibson Accubass for less than a new Rondo a while back because the neck "felt great". Set up and my strings and it sounded like garbage so in went Dimarzio 122's. Now it can do anything from great P tone to an almost a Fender jazz sound. Maple neck & fretboard helps it a lot.
Example: Picked up a white Epi/Gibson Accubass for less than a new Rondo a while back because the neck "felt great". Set up and my strings and it sounded like garbage so in went Dimarzio 122's. Now it can do anything from great P tone to an almost a Fender jazz sound. Maple neck & fretboard helps it a lot.
Yes. "Inherent flaws" is a great way to put it. I once worked on a strat copy for my nephew, and it was hellish. I couldn't even get it "good enough" because I think it just wasn't manufactured properly.
Lots of basses play "well" and feel "nice". If it doesn't play great and feel wonderful I wouldn't sink money into it. You're talking about dropping over 100 bucks into a bass that isn't worth it, that would never make back it's $ if resold and and that you've already decided to put on CL. I wouldn't put any more $ into this one. If you want to fix up a beater, find something hat really speaks to and feels great and then invest.
If the bass is just-ok and you want to practice upgrading that's fine, but stick with cheap parts, used pup or GFS, plastic nut, etc...
