When is the Precision the wrong tool for the job?

[chadds]

The fact is that she performed amazingly in studio some live for decades.


Meanwhile she used a P, Musicman, Gibson Ripper & two models of Ibanez.

 

[cymbop]

And I can't imagine using one in Jazz Fusion settings.

Michael League of Snarky Puppy wants to talk.

 

[Minimalist]

In thirty plus years of doing studio work in different studios, ranging from projects to nationals, I have never once experienced this interaction with any engineer or producer.

I have limited studio experience about 30 years ago and actually have experienced that twice. Things may have changed.

That being said, it's just silly and speaks more for the engineers incompetence. To this day I loath one of those two.

 

[Tim Schnautz]

The fact is that she performed amazingly in studio some live for decades.


Meanwhile she used a P, Musicman, Gibson Ripper & two models of Ibanez.

You’re very correct. She in fact, worked with Leo in his lab developing the pickup and its placement for the MM Stimgray.
Tru, she did use those other instruments(including the Aria Steve Bailey pro2 and the Fender P lyte) but those were short lived. She always went back to the precision that is until she had it out with Fender (hell hath no fury) and settled in with Ibanez because they made a good bass and were affordable. However I guess I should have said that the majority of her career was made on the Precision.

 

[sears]

Any time the MD or producer or someone with power says it's wrong, it's wrong. I'm not gonna die on that hill.

 

[Altitude]

In thirty plus years of doing studio work in different studios, ranging from projects to nationals, I have never once experienced this interaction with any engineer or producer.

Thanks for letting me know.

 

[pfschim]

I am with you in that it just fits with Motown, Stax, and Muscle Shoals tunes better. Being the GOF that I am, that is the music and sound I prefer. Since I play for my own enjoyment and do not want to "move on" to other music without my P .

ok, sure. except David Hood played a Jazz for the most part.

 

[SoulReflection]

ok, sure. except David Hood played a Jazz for the most part.

OK, except David Hood ...

 

[pfschim]

OK, except David Hood ...

yeah, I got nothing against P basses. Use 'em if you like 'em

 

[tvbop]

Sure other basses are more in ur face...crisper if you like. Listen to some boutique active instruments well played/Stingray etc ...but man that Jaco burp/grind for me gets real old real quick. After 40 yrs I still cant really explain it but a P bass well played whether at the neck or between the PU and bridge always sounds right, it sits just in the right spot.

 

[IronLung1986]

At one point I was backing a singer songwriter and it was just me on bass and him on acoustic guitar. No drums, no nothing. In that setting the P bass sounded too midrangey and didn't have a big enough low end to it. It was sort of too natural and uncompressed to really fill the space. It was a job for an active bass with humbuckers. I could have EQ'd the heck out of it and used a compressor of course but I was rolling with as minimal a rig as possible and needed the bass to be self sufficient. It's the only situation I've been in where a P bass wasn't quite right.

 

[Bag of Lazers]

In thirty plus years of doing studio work in different studios, ranging from projects to nationals, I have never once experienced this interaction with any engineer or producer.

I've only done pro recordings a handful of times and I sure as hell have.

 

[chadds]

At one point I was backing a singer songwriter and it was just me on bass and him on acoustic guitar. No drums, no nothing. In that setting the P bass sounded too midrangey and didn't have a big enough low end to it. It was sort of too natural and uncompressed to really fill the space. It was a job for an active bass with humbuckers. I could have EQ'd the heck out of it and used a compressor of course but I was rolling with as minimal a rig as possible and needed the bass to be self sufficient. It's the only situation I've been in where a P bass wasn't quite right.

A third of my gigging is singer songwriter duos. Acoustic guitar, vocals and bass. Big concert stages to house concerts. International artists do the house concert circuit. Tone? I agree. Full big bass and the ability to produce any tone from bass to horn parts necessitate a bass with realtime tone change up options. The P’s glorious tone shows to be incomplete in this setting. In fact the reverse of the P’s profile is called for. I did play a wake where the guitarist vocalist was playing almost exclusively Dylan. A ‘57 ri was perfect.

 

[poochiecheeks]

You are conflating a lot of things there.
First, a BEAD arrangement on a P is just fine or Stoner or Doom, because they don't play fast, they use a lot of distortion, and fuzz pedals like split single coils. They are also into retro looking basses.
That isn't what I'm talking about.
There are A LOT of different flavors of metal. And there are many that you will never see a plain old P bass on. They are too slow, and aren't easily available in 5 or 6 string versions. Nor are 35"+ scale length available. Plus, they look old and dated. Most thrash, death, metalcore, deathcore, groove, tech death, and prog death are done on something with a bridge pickup, and more often than not, are double humbuckers because of their mid presence.

Using death metal as an example.
Alex Webster recorded the first two Cannibal albums with a P bass-
-and he's completely buried on both of them. It wasnt til the third album which he did with an Ibanez Sabre PJ bass where you can hear the high mid presence of the bass through the super scooped guitar. And his best tone is on the next album with an Ibanez SR800 reverse PJ active bass. So maybe a P bass by itself is not the best but a bass with a P pickup still might be.

 

[socialleper]

Using death metal as an example.
Alex Webster recorded the first two Cannibal albums with a P bass-
-and he's completely buried on both of them. It wasnt til the third album which he did with an Ibanez Sabre PJ bass where you can hear the high mid presence of the bass through the super scooped guitar. And his best tone is on the next album with an Ibanez SR800 reverse PJ active bass. So maybe a P bass by itself is not the best but a bass with a P pickup still might be.

I think he only used the P on the first album, and it does sound like trash. And it is worth noting that he hasn't used a PJ bass since The Bleeding. He has been using double humbucker basses ever since.
PJ basses are fairly popular with 4 string players like Frank Bello of Anthrax, Duff of GnR, Gabe Crisp of Whitechapel, or Orion of Behemoth. As I said, the trick is the bridge pickup to add clarity. A jazz bass is 90% the same tone as a PJ, but the neck and body config of a jazz doesn't sit will with many metal bass players.
A humbucker in the same position as a split single coil is about 80% the same tone, so I really don't think it is the pickup as much as the position. Mixing that position with a bridge pickup gives metal players the most options and the best tones for breaking through heavily distorted guitars. The lower your tuning, the more that back pickup becomes important for mids. On my Spector Euro 5 basses I pan just a little towards the bridge for extra growl to cut through the guitars.

 

[Rib 13]

I've only done pro recordings a handful of times and I sure as hell have.

If the producer or person paying me wants me to use a particular bass, I do it no questions asked.....but if an engineer or producer thinks that a P Bass is the gauge to measure all things bass tone because 'that is what they are used to', then they need to go back to engineering school as well as get a good swift kick in the nuts.....May as well tell a guitar player to just use a standard Stratocaster for everything

 

[Jim C]

"Can you think of an instance where the Precision is the wrong tool for the job?"

When you need to drive a nail.

When you need to put out a fire.

 

[thunderstation]

It's often said on bass forums that the Precision might not be the best tool for the job, but it's never the wrong one. Do you believe that to be the case? Can you think of an instance where the Precision is the wrong tool for the job?

I've owned a Fender Precision Bass since 1973. I have never found a situation that's Precision would not work in. That being said, that does not mean that there are other basses that would work in those situations. It's just a choice and having choices is never a bad thing.

 

[TrevorG]

When you’re painting your house!

 

[Blazer]

When it's not played with dead chromes and very, very good technique. Do that and it can sound like a Jazz bass on bridge PU only. People think because a P bass is a simple instrument that it takes no effort to play...not so. Play it without care and it's flabby and indestinct.... get the right strings and technique and its a killer mid focused instrument in any environment.

Thank you for giving me a reason to post THIS clip of the Red Hot Chili Peppers playing their first European tour, supporting George Clinton. Flea had issues with his Musicman Stingray and is forced to use a Fender P-bass for the majority of this gig, and he makes the mistake you've mentioned.