When it's math, not music...

[Joe Nerve]

"remembering the arrangement is like playing Achilles Last Stand."

He is having trouble learning it. That's why he started this thread. Looking for tips on how to remember how to play the song without written notes.

No. The song is stupid simple. The arrangement can only be mastered however through memorization, or writing it out. The thread was created to vent, or to see if anyone had a trick I might be missing.

Memorization is how I generally do it, but with close to a dozen other songs to learn in a week, plus a full time job... yeah. It's extra tough when the song is brand new to me, too, and not my favorite kind of music. Some songs are easier than others to listen to 100x over.

Decided I'm using the cheat sheets. And for those not understanding, those sheets will have numbers, not notes.

And to whoever said this is pretty straight forward... I wish you only gigs with songs this straightforward .

 

[btmpancake]

That song just "cries" for some interesting bass riff (it could be with ghosted/muted notes, slap notes if you are not from that Thread of "I hate Slap).

+100-It's a bass player's dream with so much space to move around or create

 

[andruca]

For me there's no other trick when learning new music than to start living (instead of counting) the music ASAP. For that I listen to it over and over every chance I get (at work, driving, etc.). Singing it helps a lot to get in the feel. With a long set list as your wedding gig surely has there's no other way really. YMMV, personally I could hardly cover 25 songs in a single home practice session, probably 30-35 if I have enough time and on a familiar list. Listening to it often is what reinforces songs' structures and fluidity for me, way more than playing along, at least until that switch (from counting it to living it) flips.

 

[RyanJD]

And to whoever said this is pretty straight forward... I wish you only gigs with songs this straightforward .

Sounds good to me!

 

[Groove Doctor]

But as a bassist, that's the part I care about the most. For me, the best music is where each instrument actively has its own voice. Music that focuses just on a guitar or vocals bores me.

Excellent point. Songs need hooks, countermelodies, needs to say something musically.

I'm not a blues person - the basslines, progressions & melodies sound the same after a while. But I can listen to John Mayer Trio coz Pino plays such interesting lines.

 

[BassAndReeds]

Perhaps unfortunately, but the only way I learn something like this is by listening to it. A lot. Until I get to the point where I just "know how it goes." I'll only count measures and phrases while learning a song the first few times we do it, after that you just know. It's kind of like "feeling 8" instead actually counting out 8 measures while playing.

Back in college when I was playing a lot of jazz and everyone was focused on what scales to use over what progressions, dissecting and analyzing EVERYTHING mathematically, some wise person passed on a quote from some even wiser person (I've long forgotten who) but it was something like this:

You have study your harmony, learn all your melodies, all your chords, extensions, inversions, scales, arpeggios, where to use them in every key at any time. And then you have to forget all that sh!t and play.

In other words, it has to become unconscious. Just like the feeling eight thing. You have to count 8 bars consciously enough until you just don't count anymore. I think the same thing applies to songs, you just have to know where everything is.

I completely agree with this. When I'm sick of listening to a song, then I know I'll play it right. This is especially true if the song only has 2 notes. The problem arises in listening ad nauseam to a song I didn't like in the first place. Then it's work. Learning anything Adele wrote. That's work. Thankfully for myself, I like most other pop songs as much as I do Motown, Funk, Swing, Jazz, Rock, etc...

I'm not a fan of Metal. Luckily there's no call for Metal in a cover band.

 

[mpdd]

joe,
does this mean that you aren't going to play second bass in my freeform heavy bass jazz group?

 

[tbz]

Op: "how do I do this without memorizing the whole thing. Maybe writing it out and reading it would help."

People that can read music:
"Yeah just write it out, it's fast and efficient. This is why written notation exists."

People that can't read music: "noooooooooooooo reading music is the devil. It's much easier to spend hours memorizing every nuance."

[looks for face palm emoji]

 

[burnunit]

Then there's the Black Page as written by Zappa and handed down to Bozzio. Music? Nah. Call it a test of proficiency. ...Or hazing.

View attachment 1082024

Not music? Please. Beauty, complexity and feel.

 

[Joe Nerve]

Op: "how do I do this without memorizing the whole thing. Maybe writing it out and reading it would help."

People that can read music:
"Yeah just write it out, it's fast and efficient. This is why written notation exists."

People that can't read music: "noooooooooooooo reading music is the devil. It's much easier to spend hours memorizing every nuance."

[looks for face palm emoji]

Palms face while thinking...

I wish people would read my posts before responding.

 

[Ant Illington]

Sounds like time for a tablet clipped to the mic stand.

I saw a guy do this for a Steely Dan tribute band. He didn't actually read the whole time but it was there the whole time and he read it when needed. There were tunes where he read pretty much the whole time (for those who don't know, you can switch pages with a footswitch). Despite my being acutely aware of what was going on and watching for it, I wasn't distracted or put off at all; in fact, it was barely noticeable and a random audience would almost never even notice it.

 

[mp40smg]

Can you just hide an Ipad behind your rig and do a Milli Vanilli and just move around to the sequenced bass line coming out of your amp?
?

 

[Ant Illington]

Exactly. You have to just know what the song sounds like and play it. Don't try to count it.

The irony here is that OP's problem is the exact opposite of what he thinks it is. At least according to the thread title. He wants the song to be math. Math is predictable, countable, repetitive formulae. This song isn't math. And that's why he's having problems learning it.

You guys talk as if Joe ISN'T quite the accomplished bassist that he is. Some songs are just a pain in the ass for some people, especially in songs that you don't care for but you still want to play the bass line correctly rather than just highlighting the changes.

 

[City]

It drives me nuts, and all the fun gets sucked right out of it.

Playing in a new band, doing covers I never did before. They're songs that even someone playing bass for three days could execute, yet remembering the arrangement is like playing Achilles Last Stand. Only without any of the fun.

I have to play Crazy in Love next Friday, along with about 10 other brand new songs - and I know of no other way to get it down than to use cheat notes. I don't like using cheat notes, and only do it when absolutely necessary.

How do you guys get this stuff together? Is there a trick? Drummer and other guys in the band suck at cues. They're all in their own world - so they ain't happening.

If you don't know wut I'm talking about, have a listen to the arrangement on this. Only 2 parts. A & B. 3 notes. But it goes A3x, B2x, A1x, B4x, A4x, B6x, A5x... and on and on, with no logic or reason.... argh.

I think that is why you make the big bucks now. yikes....

 

[AngelCrusher]

Struggling to hear how this is a difficult cover. The arrangement flows and makes sense from a feel perspective. The song was a huge hit and is constantly requested to this day, so if you are going to be a cover band, may as well learn it. Oh yeah, you want a cheat.

Easy - ask the drummer to fill into each change. The song does that already though, so when you practice, you can listen for those cues.

EDIT : I see where you said the drummer and the other players suck at cues. Well that makes no sense to me. A great drummer in a cover band especially is usually the QB of the band. If you don't have that, you could work with him and make him better at it. Additionally, the song itself has cues into each change so if no one is acknowledging or playing them, I would question how accurate the cover actually is being performed.

 

[Mark_70]

I'm trying to summarize cheat notes on the same piece of paper as the set list - usually the stuff you can't easily remember you can summarize into a couple phrases/key words/ key numbers.
then use that piece of paper as your setlist. I just stick it on my amp or on a floor wedge or somewhere easily visible.. Can use it for setlist + cheatsheet.


Not saying this is a "best practice" - just saying what works for me..

Regards
Mark

 

[Joe Nerve]

I'm about to rage quit TB.



Some people's English reading is worse than my music reading. And that's bad.

 

[Ant Illington]

Perhaps unfortunately, but the only way I learn something like this is by listening to it. A lot. Until I get to the point where I just "know how it goes." I'll only count measures and phrases while learning a song the first few times we do it, after that you just know. It's kind of like "feeling 8" instead actually counting out 8 measures while playing.

Back in college when I was playing a lot of jazz and everyone was focused on what scales to use over what progressions, dissecting and analyzing EVERYTHING mathematically, some wise person passed on a quote from some even wiser person (I've long forgotten who) but it was something like this:

You have study your harmony, learn all your melodies, all your chords, extensions, inversions, scales, arpeggios, where to use them in every key at any time. And then you have to forget all that sh!t and play.

In other words, it has to become unconscious. Just like the feeling eight thing. You have to count 8 bars consciously enough until you just don't count anymore. I think the same thing applies to songs, you just have to know where everything is.

This is great, particularly the wiser person quote.

Regarding your first paragraph tip. Exactly. I think the trouble starts for some of us when we are under the gun and we think "I'm never going to be able to quickly memorize this song that I care nothing about." So, rather than ignoring that fearful thought, we start writing stuff out in some manner, piece by piece, never really absorbing the sound, and then we're stuck with a chart. I've done this so many times that it sickens me and I work to overcome it. It's especially hard to not cave in and chart it when you have a bunch of songs to learn quickly and you worry, reasonably so, that by the time you get to learning song number 5, you will have forgotten song number 1 if you never really got into it in the first place.

There are a lot of guys here who don't seem to grasp the predicament- I envy them. I think that they just don't have the fear and/or they are willing to just fake it because, as has been pointed out, a bass line barely matters in the song in question.

 

[Philly Watts]

Having a similar situation right now with my new project. I think the best advice is to either write it out and refer to it (who cares what people think as long as you are still entertaining) or just memorize the changes until they feel right.

The rest of the band relies heavily on the bass to make the right changes in the song. You got this Joe!!

 

[Nickweissmusic]

It drives me nuts, and all the fun gets sucked right out of it.

Playing in a new band, doing covers I never did before. They're songs that even someone playing bass for three days could execute, yet remembering the arrangement is like playing Achilles Last Stand. Only without any of the fun.

I have to play Crazy in Love next Friday, along with about 10 other brand new songs - and I know of no other way to get it down than to use cheat notes. I don't like using cheat notes, and only do it when absolutely necessary.

How do you guys get this stuff together? Is there a trick? Drummer and other guys in the band suck at cues. They're all in their own world - so they ain't happening.

If you don't know wut I'm talking about, have a listen to the arrangement on this. Only 2 parts. A & B. 3 notes. But it goes A3x, B2x, A1x, B4x, A4x, B6x, A5x... and on and on, with no logic or reason.... argh.

One of the toughest gigs I ever had to prepare for was a Jimmy Buffett tribute band. I'd heard maybe three or four Buffett songs before auditioning, their list was over 40 songs. How many different, nearly arbitrary combinations of A, D, G and E chords and generic basslines are there? Join a Jimmy Buffett tribute band to find out. You better believe I started out with a cheat sheet. No shame there. Just the act of figuring out and writing it out helps it sink in. Immersing yourself in the "music" helps too, just keep it looping in the car or headphones. Osmotic learning helps a ton with details, breaks, fills, etc.

The truth is, music that is too simple, combined with being unnecessarily complicated, will always be a challenge, especially if you never listened to it on your own time. On the upside, you get paid, and I always walked away from those projects with a new appreciation for other styles of music, not resentment. Usually anyway. I still can't stand Billy Squire or Aldo Nova thanks to the 80's cover band I was in in my 20's. People actually paid money to listen to that?