When learning a song by ear...

[uOpt]

When learning the bass part of a song by ear is it better to:

• First determine the harmonies and then do the bass?
• Straight go for the bass?

Keep in mind this is difficult for me, not a good ear for reproducing from scratch.

 

[Lobster11]

Chord progression first. Once I know that the bass notes are usually pretty easy to figure out.

Knowing a little music theory is often helpful because you can make some educated guesses about which notes are and aren't likely to be used.

 

[AGCurry]

Chord progression first. Once I know that the bass notes are usually pretty easy to figure out.

Yes.

 

[Drucifer]

When learning the bass part of a song by ear is it better to:

• First determine the harmonies and then do the bass?
• Straight go for the bass?

Keep in mind this is difficult for me, not a good ear for reproducing from scratch.

Here's my general approach, it works for me for all types of music.

1) What key is it in? Does it change keys?
2) What is the song structure (ABBA? Verse/verse/chorus/verse? etc.) How does it start and end?
3) What are the chords for each of the parts of the song?
4) What is the essence of the bassline? What is the rhythm? What notes? Are there many variations and fills? Will I need to simplify it?
5) Are there many variations and fills? Are any iconic (e.g., playing along with other instruments, or solo bass) that I will need to learn?
6) Is there any part of the bassline that I need to practice in order to play at tempo?
7) Are there variations that I or the band want to introduce?

 

[uOpt]

Thanks, guys. I know music theory, just don't have a good ear. I'll practice starting with the chord progression.

 

[hrodbert696]

Thanks, guys. I know music theory, just don't have a good ear. I'll practice starting with the chord progression.

If it's hard to hear the roots by ear, chord progressions can always be googled. What you find online may turn out to be incorrect but usually it's good, and at least gives you a place to start. Once you know the roots, then applying scales helps to figure out how the bass works through the progression.

 

[Malcolm35]

THE AUTUMN WINDS CHORDS by Niall Hanna @ Ultimate-Guitar.Com

 

[Whousedtoplay]

First determine the harmonies and then do the bass?

(It's only my personal opinion. It changes no one's mind.)

There are a lot of songs where one needs to check the chords and the bass simultaneously in order to determine those "harmonies."
Let's say,
We have the Gmaj7 chord with G in the bass.
Next, the chord (piano/keyboard/etc...) remains the same while the bass plays E.
What is the new chord?
Another example.
A chordified instrument - piano/keyboard/organ - plays C dim7 chord - C Eb Gb A.
It's Cdim7, but...
The bass plays D, which gives us Cdim7/D or D7(b9).
And so on...

 

[Whousedtoplay]

When learning the bass part of a song by ear
...not a good ear for reproducing from scratch.

I'm trying to reconcile that statement.

 

[uOpt]

I'm trying to reconcile that statement.

I have to/want to do it, but it is difficult for me.

 

[Whousedtoplay]

I have to/want to do it, but it is difficult for me.

Yes, sometimes it could be difficult for a lot of musicians, including myself.
I would start with very simple (harmony-wise) pop songs and let my brain to recognize/internalize those simple chord progression.

Let's start with the following (constant) 3-chord progression track.
Can you listen and try to figure (approximately) what's happening with the chords?

 

[uOpt]

Yes, sometimes it could be difficult for a lot of musicians, including myself.
I would start with very simple (harmony-wise) pop songs and let my brain to recognize/internalize those simple chord progression.

Let's start with the following (constant) 3-chord progression track.
Can you listen and try to figure (approximately) what's happening with the chords?

No, the melody is too overpowering for me to identify the chords.

I will try again when I have more time later today.

 

[Whousedtoplay]

No, the melody is too overpowering for me to identify the chords.

I will try again when I have more time later today.

OK.
I understand.
There are only chords at the beginning of the track - no melody.
At the beginning, we don't have any bass; therefore, the chords could be a little bit confusing:
Gmaj7/6
Emin7
and
F#min7

The first chord, Gmaj7/6 - G B D E F# can be also interpreted as Emin9, but...
The bass plays G with that chord; therefore, we have Gmaj7/6.

And that chord progression repeats over and over again.
Now.

Could you guess what key it is in?

 

[Whousedtoplay]

Let's try to figure out (just by listening/by ear) the chord progression of the following pop song.

And it's (my question) not just for the OP.
It's for any interesting TB member/s.
I don't care about any specific chords like Ab7 or Dmin7, etc...

Can you figure out the TONIC of the song?
What's going on with the chord progression in the song?
That is the REAL EAR training.

FORGET ANY CLICK-BAIT YOUTUBE videos screaming, "All you need to know about Harmony in 20 minutes or less!"

 

[mambo4]

Hasn't been explicitly mentioned so far, so I'll just call it out:
Memorizing common chord progressions as functional harmony is actually pretty easy to do
I can't tell you if a tune I hear is a C - Am - Dm - G but I will instantly recognize it as I - vi - ii - V
Familiarizing myself with he sound of common chord progressions was a huge leap in my ability to play by ear

 

[Whousedtoplay]

Hasn't been explicitly mentioned so far, so I'll just call it out:
Memorizing common chord progressions as functional harmony is actually pretty easy to do
I can't tell you if a tune I hear is a C - Am - Dm - G but I will instantly recognize it as I - vi - ii - V
Familiarizing myself with he sound of common chord progressions was a huge leap in my ability to play by ear

That's what I've been preaching all the time.

 

[Whousedtoplay]

It's FRIDAY.
Let's just explore our subject of "ear training."
(I tend to use new tracks/songs for our TB discussions - no of those "But What ... Said?" youtube videos.

Here is a "freshly" baked track from Emma-Jean Thackray, "The Rings of Saturn."

It reminded me of a REAL jam session, when a keyboard player starts playing a nice 2-measure riff.

The keyboard player plays the riff of the following notes/chords:

Amin/D as D in the left hand and A C E in the right hand.

G7sus4 as G C F (D).

The bass player says, "It's a very cool riff," and jumps in.
The bass plays the following notes in the first bar/measure of the riff:
(ascending) D E F and (descending) B
In the second measure/bar of that riff, the bass plays C

Second time, the bass player plays the same notes in the first bar of the riff, but
in the second bar, instead of playing C, the bass player plays Bb.

And it's just to start our jam session...

 

[Whousedtoplay]

And just another track/song for our Happy Friday.
I like this track. It's a slightly-modernized rock-ish Blues.
It's a long track but it's not boring.
I should be easy to figure out the chord movement by ear.
Let's try.

 

[LBS-bass]

I guess I'm different here. My ear already knows what the chords are because I can hear all the notes in them. There's hardly a single moment on stage where I'm thinking "this is this kind of chord." That sort of thought before fingers just slows you down.

The vast majority of songs, though, do not have complicated chords or changes. I listen to the actual bass part and learn that, and then if I want to improvise around those chords, I do.

Most of the time, it's enough to hear whether a chord is major or minor and so forth. Certain standard patterns will almost always work. With a minor chord you adjust the third. If you have a major seventh or a diminished chord you might have to either avoid the five or seven or adjust your pattern accordingly. But most of the notes in your standard pattern will still fit. So those things are good to know if you're improvising.

I did not always have this ability, but I worked with chord charts on jazz standards and learned the basic fingering differences between a diminished chord and a standard major/minor chord, etc. etc. etc. Eventually you know a diminished chord when you hear one so you automatically know where to go on the five. So once again the answer is to practice with intent.

 

[Whousedtoplay]

I did not always have this ability, but I worked with chord charts on jazz standards and learned the basic fingering differences between a diminished chord and a standard major/minor chord, etc. etc. etc. Eventually you know a diminished chord when you hear one so you automatically know where to go on the five. So once again the answer is to practice with intent.

Yes, ear training is a lengthy process.
There are so many chords, chord progressions to remember, memorize, and internalize.
Just a few of them from "Chord progressions - Money chords."

Ascending Augmented Progressions (I-I+-I6-I7)
Various ascending bass line progressions.
Backdoor progression - like ♭VII to I
Classic Rock Progressions (I-bVII-IV)
Combination Progressions (I-IV-I-V)
Descending Bass Line Progressions are a type of Moving Bass Line Progression where the bass notes of each chord in the progression move lower generally in half or whole steps
Descending minor cliché (vi-vi(M7)-vi7-vi6) progressions are often used to provide a feeling of movement when a ―I‖ chord is used for more than one or two bars.
The Circle of 5th Progressions,
and so on...