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Double Bass When Nylons Go Bad
- Thread starter Jay Corwin
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- eurosonic innovation
Exchanged some messages with Eric and tried a few things. Definitely not the strings. I swapped the Innovations out with guts, and the vibration is much less pronounced. It's still present but I can limp along. Don't have time to get the work done right now.
I guess the fingerboard is not plan or the action too low (maybe both). Different strings have different energy distribution over the partials of the string so the amount of excursion at a certain place at the fingerboard will differ. So a high spot may buzz more with one string than another.
If it's on the open string only, the nut (bridge) goove might be too deep or wide. In that case put some paper or thin cardboard between nut (bridge) and string.
The only other reason might be a resonance, probably by some damage as a unfixed part or open seam, but this is unlikely if you get that problem with the E string only and also on notes you can play on the A string.
If it's on the open string only, the nut (bridge) goove might be too deep or wide. In that case put some paper or thin cardboard between nut (bridge) and string.
The only other reason might be a resonance, probably by some damage as a unfixed part or open seam, but this is unlikely if you get that problem with the E string only and also on notes you can play on the A string.
I haven't measured it in ages. I did try raising it when the problem started, but it didn't help. At this point it's a job for a luthier.
I think it may be the nut. I had a good bit of practice today to the point that I could start tuning out room noise and such. My ear is picking up a buzz at the nut on the E and A. However I don't know if this is just being transferred from somewhere else on the bass. Like I said it's beyond my abilities to trouble shoot and fix, so I'll be getting a professional to deal with it soon. Unfortunately I'm too busy in December to give my bass up yet.
If you finger a note it cannot be the nut height. And I doubt it is a nut vibration, but who knows...
I would check the peg screws. If one is loose things like that can happen easily. Or there might be something in the pegbox that rattles. Maybe loose windings or longer string ends.
And don't forget to check your bass in another room. Some resonances from something in the room can sound like they come from the bass.
I would check the peg screws. If one is loose things like that can happen easily. Or there might be something in the pegbox that rattles. Maybe loose windings or longer string ends.
And don't forget to check your bass in another room. Some resonances from something in the room can sound like they come from the bass.
In case anyone is still interested, here's an update.
I took it in to my luthier. He slapped an old cheap steel string on it, and the problem disappeared. He put one of my well worn Innovations back on (E) and it played fine. He also went over the whole thing to check for usual suspects. He didn't find anything.
It played fine for about a week, then it started roaring on the E again, then it almost away again. I've also started buzzing certain notes on the plain gut strings all over the board. My gut tells me that this a winter, dryness issue at hand. In the past I have had to make adjustments to keep gut functioning well in the winter. Maybe the Innovation is beat to crap at this point as well.
I ordered a new set of Golden Slaps. I'm going to start from square one. As much as I love gut, it's really been biting me in the ass since summer.
I took it in to my luthier. He slapped an old cheap steel string on it, and the problem disappeared. He put one of my well worn Innovations back on (E) and it played fine. He also went over the whole thing to check for usual suspects. He didn't find anything.
It played fine for about a week, then it started roaring on the E again, then it almost away again. I've also started buzzing certain notes on the plain gut strings all over the board. My gut tells me that this a winter, dryness issue at hand. In the past I have had to make adjustments to keep gut functioning well in the winter. Maybe the Innovation is beat to crap at this point as well.
I ordered a new set of Golden Slaps. I'm going to start from square one. As much as I love gut, it's really been biting me in the ass since summer.
Thanks for the update to this conundrum.
So it's not in the string wrap's, not in the nut, no loose seam or crack somewhere in the body, and not in the hardware in the pegbox. And I guess not in the fingerboard shape either.
Other common suspects are: something in the tailpiece (tap it to diagnose), the end pin (take it out to diagnose), but I guess those have been looked at.
I once had something similar which I traced down to the fingerboard-neck joint, which had come loose over a section. It could be something like that, as it went away after a load-unload-load cycle, which the instrument went through when your luthier exchanged strings. I could not see it from the outside, but could hear it when I tapped the free end of the FB. Try tapping the free end of the FB when the instrument is in the mode that it makes the sound.
Can you reproduce the sound by tapping anywhere (when it is in the mode that it has the sound), or does it only come from playing said strings?
More sinister: could it be the bass bar? That could also be sensitive to a load cycle.
PS.: just realised this is a ply bass; could it be local de-lamination? Press with your thumb (with moderate force) over the entire surface of the body, while listening carefully to hear movement.
So it's not in the string wrap's, not in the nut, no loose seam or crack somewhere in the body, and not in the hardware in the pegbox. And I guess not in the fingerboard shape either.
Other common suspects are: something in the tailpiece (tap it to diagnose), the end pin (take it out to diagnose), but I guess those have been looked at.
I once had something similar which I traced down to the fingerboard-neck joint, which had come loose over a section. It could be something like that, as it went away after a load-unload-load cycle, which the instrument went through when your luthier exchanged strings. I could not see it from the outside, but could hear it when I tapped the free end of the FB. Try tapping the free end of the FB when the instrument is in the mode that it makes the sound.
Can you reproduce the sound by tapping anywhere (when it is in the mode that it has the sound), or does it only come from playing said strings?
More sinister: could it be the bass bar? That could also be sensitive to a load cycle.
PS.: just realised this is a ply bass; could it be local de-lamination? Press with your thumb (with moderate force) over the entire surface of the body, while listening carefully to hear movement.
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The vibrational pattern of a steel core string often has less excursion than of a synthetic core string like the Braided. Also a different spectral energy distribution.
So it doesn't mean too much that the problem didn't arise with the steel core string.
But hard to say what is the culprit.
So it doesn't mean too much that the problem didn't arise with the steel core string.
But hard to say what is the culprit.
Well it could be in the strings. I'm starting with a new set to see what happens.
The bass was checked for all of things you've listed above as far as I know. I was there for the initial exam and observed him checking for, and talking about all of most of those things. The bass bar was checked as well. There was much tapping, playing, pressing, etc. He went through the entire inside too.
Once he had gone over it in front of me he decided to keep it to get into more. He was able to turn the problem on and off by replacing the wound gut E with a steel E.
I haven't tried your suggestion with the finger board. If I still experience problems when I restring it, i'll check into that.
this one is crazy!
your bass is pretty new....doubt its the seams or other structural problems.
i live near you and had little problems with my guts this summer. my guts are wrapped with silver or tynex on the D and G.
were you playing out in the sun? i had one gig where we had no shade and the sun came over the hill and my bass wouldn't stay in tune too long.
i am curious about humidity. do you have a humidity gauge in your studio/rehearsal space? my bass sounds weird when it's below 30-40% humidity.
your bass is pretty new....doubt its the seams or other structural problems.
i live near you and had little problems with my guts this summer. my guts are wrapped with silver or tynex on the D and G.
were you playing out in the sun? i had one gig where we had no shade and the sun came over the hill and my bass wouldn't stay in tune too long.
i am curious about humidity. do you have a humidity gauge in your studio/rehearsal space? my bass sounds weird when it's below 30-40% humidity.
I played every situation I can think of this summer. I was super busy and had a lot of travel as well. My strings required ridiculous maintenance this summer - exponentially more than I can remember in the past. It's why I threw the towel in and went to Innovations for a while.
I do humidify my room, and I have a hygrometer on the way. My guts always got a little wonky in winter, but nothing like this. The only wound/wrapped I use is an E.
So it was roaring again yesterday. I restrung it with a new'ish set of innovations, and wouldn't you know it - the roar again went away with the string swap. However I suspect at some point it might come back. My plan is to limp along for the next month or so, and then start looking for the next string again, sigh.
I also doubt that it has any structural problems. It's roughly 2 years old and came from Upton. I'm not saying they can't have problems, but I've never heard anyone complaining about a new Upton. Chances are when spring comes, it'll stop having this issue.
I also doubt that it has any structural problems. It's roughly 2 years old and came from Upton. I'm not saying they can't have problems, but I've never heard anyone complaining about a new Upton. Chances are when spring comes, it'll stop having this issue.
