when someone asks you to try playing with a pick....

[scatbass]

That's what I'm illustrating - that whether you are flipping burgers, playing bass, getting paid or not...you are doing something for someone else, therefore you should expect to do it their way. That's all. No different really in the philosophy, the only difference is the burgers. (I don't recommend flipping them with your bass, nor with a pick...)

 

[hernameisrio]

Well, that's my take on it as well, except that this wasn't a session. This was just like, a blanket "suggestion" placed on me indefinitely as a band member. So the whole thing was kinda weird. Anyway, the band turned out to have other financial issues/baggage from past members, which somewhat explains why they gave me a hard time as well.

"The Pick Insisters." Great band name. Actually no, I didn't feel comfortable. I got a weird vibe. It felt like there was something going on that they weren't telling me, or some sort of feeling they had about me that they didn't want to share. The only person who struck me as really genuine was the drummer, who was nice enough to give me a ride home from the last rehearsal (or second leg of the audition or whatever you wanna call it, har har) since we live in the same neighborhood. But he also just has a different personality type than me. I take this stuff seriously...I can't not. And maybe that comes off wrong sometimes, who knows. He seems to be of the, "whatever, I just show up and play" type, and they also weren't being as rigid with what they wanted him to do.

The whole thing is already behind me. As soon as my friend told me what had happened with them not paying him and taking his name off the record, I just got such a bad taste in my mouth about those people, that I'm relieved not to be playing with them. I don't expect to ever be able to avoid ALL of these types of situations, but if I could at least steer clear most of the time and learn how to recognize them, that's good enough for me!

 

[sean_on_bass]

If you're playing someone else's music, you should expect to be asked to play it their way. If I wrote music in which the bassist played with a pick, I would expect anyone who filled that role do play with a pick. If that person isn't willing to fulfill my vision for MY music, then they can go. Pretty simple to me.

I dont think it should be expected at all. If i wrote some tunes, i would want the player to put some of their personal spin on the bass lines, especially in a rhythm section. If i didnt think a player had a good enough style of playing i wouldn't have them in my band at all. Then again i am coming from a jazz point of view.

 

[scatbass]

I dont think it should be expected at all. If i wrote some tunes, i would want the player to put some of their personal spin on the bass lines, especially in a rhythm section. If i didnt think a player had a good enough style of playing i wouldn't have them in my band at all. Then again i am coming from a jazz point of view.

IF the producer says "add your own thing", then fine. HOWEVER, if the producer has specific requirements, then expect to meet them.

Look, it depends what you want to get out of it. If you are determined to do things exactly your way, there is nothing wrong with that...but it is going to limit the gigs you play. If however you are more flexible and willing to at least try to accommodate everybody involved, you will be seen as more flexible and will work more.

That's all - no right or wrong, it depends what YOU want to get out of it.

 

[sean_on_bass]

IF the producer says "add your own thing", then fine. HOWEVER, if the producer has specific requirements, then expect to meet them.

Look, it depends what you want to get out of it. If you are determined to do things exactly your way, there is nothing wrong with that...but it is going to limit the gigs you play. If however you are more flexible and willing to at least try to accommodate everybody involved, you will be seen as more flexible and will work more.

That's all - no right or wrong, it depends what YOU want to get out of it.

I think your dead on if this was a serious pro situation. I'm just talking in a more casual "originals band" type atmosphere. If someone called me out of the blue to lay down some tracks for cash, yeah i'll do whatever you want, it's just a paycheck. But if i show up to audition for an originals band, with no prospects, and just some one-man demo's to go off of, asking me to play everything a specific way is gonna turn me off on day one. I command a little more respect and trust than that.

I think an issue with a lot of folks seeking advice on this board is that there are a lot of pro guys here giving good pro advice, but more often than not the people seeking the advice are casual players and NOT in a professional situation.

 

[hernameisrio]

@Seanto: I agree, I think there is a huge disconnect there and it's incredibly frustrating. I think it's also why my perspective has kinda gotten so warped..because I have friends who DO get paid for this stuff, so when I relay situations like this to them, their advice is always gonna be, "Get paid!" which is unfortunately not always helpful.

Honestly, I've never understood how to come to terms with unpaid gigs in a way that still adequately prepares me for someday GETTING paid gigs....how to transition from one world to the other. Maybe to a degree, it just happens? Maybe I really should just ask and be more upfront? I don't know. I have no one to ask because most of the musicians I know, are already making money and somehow were able to land in that situation without a lot of strife, in part because they avoided originals bands...but mostly because they're mostly all much older than me and simply came from a time when it was far more feasible to get paid for this crap.

One of the worst things about trying to find my way in this business is simply not having enough of a peer group (i.e. people closer to my age) consisting of people who already ARE where I want to be. Instead I have many friends who are of a different generation and different background, who can only help me so much...or I have friends who are my age but who don't take it seriously and don't have the same aspirations.

The other thing I want to impress upon you guys is that I'm in New York City. And from what I can tell, it really is a different game here than if I lived someplace less urban and a little smaller where if anything, it might be EASIER to just play the goddamn music and get the freakin money and call it a life for myself.

I know that most people on this forum are just trying to help and I guess now I'm starting to see why everybody's opinions are so varied. Geography, age, musical style...

 

[lfmn16]

@Seanto: I agree, I think there is a huge disconnect there and it's incredibly frustrating. I think it's also why my perspective has kinda gotten so warped..because I have friends who DO get paid for this stuff, so when I relay situations like this to them, their advice is always gonna be, "Get paid!" which is unfortunately not always helpful.

It's really quite simple. If you want to get paid, don't work for free. Find someone that is doing what you want to do and ask them how they did it. Most people are more than glad to tell you how they became successful. Next, when you contact a group, or they contact you, your first question should be how much each band member makes. If its a non-paying situation, then skip it.

The most important thing you could do is write out your goals. Do you want to play originals, do you want to make money, do you want to play out a lot? What are your requirements for a band? Do they need to be working, do they need a PA, do they need to have all members except a bass player?

From reading your posts it sounds like you bounce from situation to situation. If you had clearly defined goals and passed on all the situations that didn't fit them, you wouldn't waste so much time getting involved in all the drama and nonsense. It takes discipline to turn down situations that aren't right for you when you aren't doing anything else.

If you act like a professional and associate with professionals you'll eventually get a reputation as a professional. If you associate with yo-yo's you'll get a reputation as a yo-yo.

Good luck.

 

[nojj]

Sometimes a gut feeling is all ya have to go on, and more often than not, it's right.
IMO you did the right thing as far as turning the situ down.
The angst, well that's another story.
Passion is fine, we all have strong feeling about what we (want to) do,
but it getting detrimental to your health and mental well-being is not in your best interest.

For my band, I asked around first,
(after the BL walked into the OS I was hosting and wanted me to audition)
thought long & hard about it, but went with 'em anyway.
Fast forward a dozen years or so,
and I'm looking at tours, people buying me equipment, mo' money, and having to shave..........

 

[GlennW]

What's the word for perceiving meaningful, thoughtful advice as mental abuse??

Two words, persecution complex.

 

[hernameisrio]

I don't know. I know you guys have good intentions for the most part but some of it just comes off as dismissing my feelings as "drama." That's all I'm saying. I mean, I don't care anymore, but sometimes some of the people on this forum come off as a bunch of macho, unsympathetic jerks in a way that honestly is not appealing. Hey, you asked.

Anyway, the funny thing is that right now I'm NOT expecting to get paid. But once again, this is why it becomes even more critical that I get a good vibe from whoever I'm playing with...because if you're not playing for money, you should be playing for fun and for character-building experiences.

For various reasons, whether my "fault" or otherwise, many of my experiences have not been character-building, let alone fun. They've honestly been kinda character-crushing. And yeah...I think it has a lot to do with being too scattered in my goals and unrealistic in my expectations of others.

I expect a lot of others because I value working for them and because I want to bring my skills and experiences to the table in a way that will benefit them. So, yeah. Sometimes, perhaps too often, I DO get my hopes up, because if I didn't, I wouldn't put myself out there at all and I would probably have a major chip on my shoulder. Everything that I expect from others is what I expect of myself.

And ultimately, for better or worse, I'm just not the kind of person to ease up on my own expectations for myself and my own progress. I enjoy playing bass, it's changed my life and my character for the better in many ways, it's given me something to work towards that matters to me, and it matters to me. So it's more than a hobby to me, even though it's "for fun" right now.

I'm so burned out on this thread, I don't even know if that makes sense.

 

[nojj]

sometimes some of the people on this forum come off as a bunch of macho, unsympathetic jerks in a way that honestly is not appealing.

Well, we are bass players...........
A lot of the advice you've gotten from here has been constructive, even though a few put it a little.......bluntly.

 

[hernameisrio]

Yeah, bluntly. That's a good way to describe it.

But also, most of the people trying to give me advice on here, just come from a different place...so they can't necessarily relate, and then they try anyway, and it just kinda doesn't work. Sorry dudes.

At any rate, what am I gonna do, quit playing? I'll see how this audition goes on Friday and someday I'll land in a project that is actually good for me, and then none of this will matter...so $%#& it.

 

[Jack Butler]

That's what I'm illustrating - that whether you are flipping burgers, playing bass, getting paid or not...you are doing something for someone else, therefore you should expect to do it their way. That's all. No different really in the philosophy, the only difference is the burgers. (I don't recommend flipping them with your bass, nor with a pick...)

That depends a lot on specifics of the situation. First and foremost, if you're a sideman, esp. a paid one, then of course do what the person with the checkbook wants. If you're in a band, take their suggestions as input, have an open mind about learning new stuff, but your opinion is as valid as anyone else's as to whether a pick or fingers is better for a particular tune. My way of looking at it would be "what if I turned this around on any other bandmember"? If the guitar player, for example, tried to push me to play with a pick always, I'd say sure thing, how about you play only fingerstyle...
and as for burgers, if I'm working at Wendy's that's one thing, if I'm a chef and part owner of the restaurant, I might make the burger the way I think the customers want them.

 

[KevInDaBassment]

Like everyone is probably saying, don't be afraid to branch out. I was a dogmatic pick hater for the longest time, but if you play with effects or are looking for a certain sound (Toolish, Punk stuff, or Nirvanaesque) it can be a helpful little tool. Try mixing in some plucking with the free fingers and see if they notice. If you feel like it truly hinders your playing, don't waste your time with it and look elsewhere if you just don't want to use one.

 

[Spino]

If I go to an Audition ,I make a point of telling the BL that I do not play with a pick ,ever... don't like it never have done and don't see the point of it .It takes the Bass into clacky sonic territory that I don't like and is too guitar sounding to me. A Rickenbacker played with a pick makes me despair and feel like throwing up .All this bollocks about cutting through? Do me a favor !
This guitar player sounds like one of those anachronistic rock players who does everything his Rock heroes do which can be Ok but his insistence that you also comply is unjustified and lacks respect .You don't put years of practice in on an instrument to have someone tell you to play it another way.If this band does not work out you are going to regret your compromise.Plenty of bands looking for Bass players find one that plays original material where you can express yourself and be creative instead of being just a "covers player".You've already doing that and one covers band is enough? Especially with your work situation . Greetz

 

[nojj]

Never Give Up, Never Surrender.............(Tim Allen)

 

[matthewzarder]

I just realized that the only people who have ever asked me to play with a pick, are...not bass players.

+1...LOL. This is funny to me. I play acoustic guitar as well as the bass, and did away with the pick on both for the most part. I've always preferred fingerstyle on the bass, and a pick for the acoustic. Then I had a classical guitar teacher force me to stop playing guitar with a pick... Now I just have girly fingernails.....I digress.

Guitarists generally love the pick, and generally lead the band. It's funny a guitarist might suggest you switch your style before adjusting your mids and highs

 

[nojj]

Missed that one. +1 as well.

I play with a pick, (little choice in the matter)
but usually hide it, tired of gtr players scragging all my picks...........

 

[BawanaRik]

Who played with a pick?

 

[hernameisrio]

So? The world does not begin and end with Paul McCartney. He's awesome, but we can also say this about bassists who play finger-style.

Sorry, Paul. I do like the Beatles, of course. I'm actually waiting for God himself to strike me dead with a giant bolt of lightning from the sky for saying that....