If I had a dollar for every pedal I see on some of the pedalboards I see posted on TB, I would be off to an Island.
Just don't ask me how many pedals I own
KISS
Just don't ask me how many pedals I own
KISS
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When to know you’re over-processing your sound?
- Thread starter Sonic Titan
- Start date
Although I use only a few peripherals, I make the mistake of setting the levels in a near-sterile / static environment then wonder why it sounds like hell in full-ensemble / venue settings. This is a thinly-veiled endorsement for do-dads that can be tweaked / defeated quickly on the fly.
Riis
Riis
I'm sort of going through this right now.
I currently have 2 distortions on my board (and 1 fuzz) and even though they sound completely different, I've been asking myself if I really need them both.
I haven't found the answer just yet but I feel like I'm close
I currently have 2 distortions on my board (and 1 fuzz) and even though they sound completely different, I've been asking myself if I really need them both.
I haven't found the answer just yet but I feel like I'm close
Go back to basics. Decent bass into a decent amp. Add pedals if needed but only if needed
I think there is compulsion in all of us to use something for no better reason than we happen to have one.
I think there is compulsion in all of us to use something for no better reason than we happen to have one.
If you add enough stuff to an onion to make it taste like ice cream, at what point is it no longer an onion?
This a million percent. My only always on pedal is a compressor, and sometimes I fee like that's too much.
There's no real "over"-processing. There's just "wrong" processing. And by "wrong", I mean "your gear is not achieving your desired sound". If your desired sound involves a complex signal chain, that's just what it means. If a complex signal chain makes it hard for you to get your desires sound, then that's also what that means. I try to frame as much of my gear work around the end sound, because you'd be surprised how many musicians don't-- or at least, not as directly as they should. It's easy to get caught up in how cool something seems or how good it feels to design and assemble a huge complicated pedalboard.
I liken this to engineering. "Over-engineered" is a word you hear thrown around a lot, but it actually doesn't make much sense if you think about it. The goal of engineering is to optimize the product under whatever given constraints you have. If something is "over-engineered" such that it's actually become less optimal, it's not "over-engineered" at all... it's not engineered well enough. Try telling that to ambitious engineers who like designing and manufacturing increasingly impressive contraptions...
We could also go into the creative aspect of the gear. Some people thrive on control over their sound, while other people thrive on the simplicity of NOT controlling their sound. Sometimes people change. I know I go through phases when it comes to how important signal processing is to my creativity. Sometimes it helps a lot, sometimes I get so sick of it that I want to get rid of all the gear.
As far as tricks to get around your predicament, it's hard to really express. To me, tone and signal processing is so practiced that it's intuitive. If something is wrong with the way I sound, it doesn't take me long to figure out why, and correct the problem. It's an experience thing that comes from twisting a lot of knobs and figuring out what sounds good and what sounds bad. One piece of advice might be to try to imagine how you WANT to sound, and come up with the shortest list of things that would get you there.
I agree with all the replies that suggest you experiment. Go back to stage 1, reduce, reorganize, reorder, play around randomly with what you have.
I’ll add that, as you’re looking for a place to settle, consider that sound/tone is often not the most important determining factor, but feel is. My always on processes change the response of my instrument, allowing and encouraging me to touch the strings differently. I find the age old argument “nobody can hear the difference” to be wholly irrelevant, because the effects chain enables altered technique, groove and performance. I would guess that all the members of the Bass>cable>amp club spend significant effort with choice of instrument, strings, action/setup towards the same goal, to get the right feel when they play. For me, many effects are simply an extension of that effort.
So as you listen while you experiment, also take notice of how it feels.
I’ll add that, as you’re looking for a place to settle, consider that sound/tone is often not the most important determining factor, but feel is. My always on processes change the response of my instrument, allowing and encouraging me to touch the strings differently. I find the age old argument “nobody can hear the difference” to be wholly irrelevant, because the effects chain enables altered technique, groove and performance. I would guess that all the members of the Bass>cable>amp club spend significant effort with choice of instrument, strings, action/setup towards the same goal, to get the right feel when they play. For me, many effects are simply an extension of that effort.
So as you listen while you experiment, also take notice of how it feels.
D
You will know you are over-processing if it sounds better IN THE MIX when you switch off some or all effects.
Of course, all pedals will need to be set for unity gain to make any kind of meaningful comparison. Louder will nearly always sound better, even when it isn't. This is a VERY common mistake.
The ONLY time an effect should make the signal louder is when you specifically want the signal to be boosted, like for a solo or to push the input of a tube amp harder. Proper gain staging is important.
Of course, all pedals will need to be set for unity gain to make any kind of meaningful comparison. Louder will nearly always sound better, even when it isn't. This is a VERY common mistake.
The ONLY time an effect should make the signal louder is when you specifically want the signal to be boosted, like for a solo or to push the input of a tube amp harder. Proper gain staging is important.
Keep the mesa and the sushi and leave the rest.
@Sonic Titan, sounds like you've got the idea by starting with an unaltered signal path and applying fresh ears to it.
Applying some basic science from there should work: For theory to be accepted, it should be observable and repeatable.
Setup no more than 3 sample tracks in a full-mix context, one with straight bass into amp, one with what you theorize to be essential effects only, eliminating any perceived redundancies, and one with your current full-effects signal chain. Use the same musical passages for all three sample tracks and physically remove any pedals you're not using from the signal path to eliminate resistance due to circuit length and and any dynamics-robbing impact of buffered effects. Make a note of your own observations, then post the tracks here, side-by-side for peer review, in addition to asking family and friends to weigh in.
If you get a unanimous win, dial that in, comparing the "win" settings with what you may perceive as a better setting (you're new theory), repeat the above process with side by side tracks, inviting peer review, until the whole thing comes into sharper focus.
If you gig or rehearse with a live band, record those sessions with a Zoom Q2n camera or H1n audio recorder, with the mic placed about 10-15 feet back and up on a mic stand or tripod at least 5-6' high. This will give you a reasonable snapshot of how you sound in a live mix. Then repeat the 3-separate-sample experiment in a real-life live setting. We've got a handful of venues where we play each month so this is maybe easier to do for us than in other contexts; If you're rehearsing with a band in the same room each week, your process is probably going to be even easier.
Applying some basic science from there should work: For theory to be accepted, it should be observable and repeatable.
Setup no more than 3 sample tracks in a full-mix context, one with straight bass into amp, one with what you theorize to be essential effects only, eliminating any perceived redundancies, and one with your current full-effects signal chain. Use the same musical passages for all three sample tracks and physically remove any pedals you're not using from the signal path to eliminate resistance due to circuit length and and any dynamics-robbing impact of buffered effects. Make a note of your own observations, then post the tracks here, side-by-side for peer review, in addition to asking family and friends to weigh in.
If you get a unanimous win, dial that in, comparing the "win" settings with what you may perceive as a better setting (you're new theory), repeat the above process with side by side tracks, inviting peer review, until the whole thing comes into sharper focus.
If you gig or rehearse with a live band, record those sessions with a Zoom Q2n camera or H1n audio recorder, with the mic placed about 10-15 feet back and up on a mic stand or tripod at least 5-6' high. This will give you a reasonable snapshot of how you sound in a live mix. Then repeat the 3-separate-sample experiment in a real-life live setting. We've got a handful of venues where we play each month so this is maybe easier to do for us than in other contexts; If you're rehearsing with a band in the same room each week, your process is probably going to be even easier.
When I just can’t get a tone that makes me happy, that’s a clear indication I’m over processing. At that point, I stop using my pedalboard completely for a while and play a gig or two without it. That forces me back to a simple, straight-to-the-amp tone. After a while, I start over again bringing in pedals one by one and I’m good for a while.
Eventually the cycle repeats.
That’s not just a bass thing, for me anyway. I’ve repeated a very similar pattern with my golf swing every year.
Eventually the cycle repeats.
That’s not just a bass thing, for me anyway. I’ve repeated a very similar pattern with my golf swing every year.
I was an effect junkie........I was cured when I accidentally left my pedals in my practice room at home. I didn't have time to turn back to fetch them, and was forced to use my amp and my bass for a gig........It was the best sound ever. since then I have added only compression and a tiny bit of grit to that sound. I'm so glad it happened.......it forced me to realize what I actually need.
When I just can’t get a tone that makes me happy, that’s a clear indication I’m over processing. At that point, I stop using my pedalboard completely for a while and play a gig or two without it. That forces me back to a simple, straight-to-the-amp tone. After a while, I start over again bringing in pedals one by one and I’m good for a while.
Eventually the cycle repeats.
That’s not just a bass thing, for me anyway. I’ve repeated a very similar pattern with my golf swing every year.
Yep. We creative types have a tendency to chase the dragon, the self-defeating pursuit of the ultimate high. So it's gone with much in my life with often predictably disastrous and sometimes hilariously dark consequences.
If you've been able to limit this common-among-creatives human flaw to just your bass signal chain and golf swing, you're doing great, congrats.
I'm better now, though still not without some road humps and wrong turns, as long as I remember happiness is not getting what I want, but being grateful for what I have.
My signal chain, setup/teardown time, and ease of dialing in a simple, usable tone have all benefitted.
You might say one of my superpowers is not getting what I want.
My band goes direct, so an amp is out of my equation most of the time. I wanted some tone shaping and some warmth, and I'm fully satisfied with the third tube preamp I've owned, an Arkham Oracle. I have been an in and off user of compressors for the past few years, but with the Lusithand Alma v2, I feel great about my dry tone. In my band, I just need drive for a few things and an envelope filter for a few things. Add a tuner. My load in is one trip. Our band's PA fits in a Prius. I do not miss humping cabinets and amps at 1am. I also happen to have the best tone I've ever had, and I carry maybe 30lbs of gear to a show.
My home jams with my wife who drums have a lot more adventurousness with effects, but even then I just add an OC-2 and a looper and I'm good for now. I do have plans for more with that particular stuff, but we're playing some pretty out there jams. For a cover band, you can keep the amp and cabinets. I'll bring my board and bass, have great tone, and be out of the gig half an hour earlier.
My home jams with my wife who drums have a lot more adventurousness with effects, but even then I just add an OC-2 and a looper and I'm good for now. I do have plans for more with that particular stuff, but we're playing some pretty out there jams. For a cover band, you can keep the amp and cabinets. I'll bring my board and bass, have great tone, and be out of the gig half an hour earlier.
Pedal addiction is a real thing. I don't use any but use a lot of plug ins on recordings. Same idea and nothing wrong with it to get the tone you want.
As long as the bass sounds good in the mix with the band it doesn't matter how you process the sound or if the the logic follows all the expert guidance. Do whatever you want and what your wallet can handle.
As long as the bass sounds good in the mix with the band it doesn't matter how you process the sound or if the the logic follows all the expert guidance. Do whatever you want and what your wallet can handle.
My current, "is it too much" voodoo is to place a deep, pleasing natural reverb at/near end of chain. If I then remove an effect, EQ setting, filter, etc. and if what remains sounds better, it stays out.
Think of the reverb as simulating hearing your rig in a challenging environment.
Think of the reverb as simulating hearing your rig in a challenging environment.
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