where do you sit on ancient astronaut theory?

[madmatt]

But ... but ... gravity's not even a proven fact!

It's a helluva theory though.

 

[12bass]

When asked, it is funny what an atheist thinks God is, usually described as "the little pixie faerie in the sky" or something similar. If atheists feel this is what God is, then I understand why they are atheist.

Sounds like a pejorative generalization.... what's more interesting, IMO, is the myriad of personal understandings of the supernatural, perhaps numbering in the billions....

 

[jmattbassplaya]

When asked, it is funny what an atheist thinks God is, usually described as "the little pixie faerie in the sky" or something similar. If atheists feel this is what God is, then I understand why they are atheist.

Ask people of the same faith what they think god is and you'll get just as many differing answers - and some just as silly as a little pixie fairy in the sky. There's no right or wrong. It's just whether you believe or not.

 

[12bass]

About as far as I'm going to go here... When it comes to assessing the existential value of a given term, it is necessary for the definition to be sufficiently clear so as to allow for meaningful adjudication. Often, that is not the case. Thus, rather than negation, ignosticism is the rational response.

 

[dj150888]

When asked, it is funny what an atheist thinks God is, usually described as "the little pixie faerie in the sky" or something similar. If atheists feel this is what God is, then I understand why they are atheist.

Funny that out of all the athiests I know, not one of them thinks anything similar to that.

For the record, I'm not an athiest. I'm not a theist either though. I'm just a guy who likes to ask questions. I think it would do people of faith good to read certain anti-theistic material. Its not much of a faith if its never tested. The people I've met who have the strongest faiths very rarely get as hot and bothered about other people questioning it.

 

[96tbird]

Funny that over on the thread about a TB member's relative has disappeared there are people, whom I have read right here basically poo-pooing the idea of a unifying force that some may hang the name God on, are sending this unfortunate TB'er "good karma" and "positive vibes", etc. I just find it unusual that some deny on one hand and then evoke pagan mysticism and terms that elude that energy (vibes) are being radiated in support of our friend. "I hope this turns out" would be more appropriate.

Just an observation and will only add that if you believe in nothing other than an accident as cause of existence, you may want to rethink using pagan terms. True pagans believe in mystic things of one sort or another. Just something to think about. I just find it odd. IMHO, YMMV.

 

[DerHoggz]

If something so small and simple as a stone has energy; it could be possible to believe these energies interact with nature in a certain way. I am sure this is possible with things other than just stones and rocks. Possibly EVERYTHING has its own energy in this world... It's these relations between things that can possibly make up a big part of why life is way the it is as we know it.

What energy are you talking about? Kinetic, potential, or mass energy?

Funny that over on the thread about a TB member's relative has disappeared there are people, whom I have read right here basically poo-pooing the idea of a unifying force that some may hang the name God on, are sending this unfortunate TB'er "good karma" and "positive vibes", etc. I just find it unusual that some deny on one hand and then evoke pagan mysticism and terms that elude that energy (vibes) are being radiated in support of our friend. "I hope this turns out" would be more appropriate.

Just an observation and will only add that if you believe in nothing other than an accident as cause of existence, you may want to rethink using pagan terms. True pagans believe in mystic things of one sort or another. Just something to think about. I just find it odd. IMHO, YMMV.

This post is completely unnecessary. I would like a nice friendly discussion, now that the thread has died down a bit. I personally believe in creation, but find this inflammatory.

@dj, that book sounds like an interesting read.
This book poses an argument I haven't seen argued against, and seems very strong:
http://www.amazon.com/Genetic-Entropy-Mystery-Genome-Sanford/dp/1599190028

I was wondering what happened to this thread, figured it had been closed and too lazy to search it.

 

[jmattbassplaya]

Funny that over on the thread about a TB member's relative has disappeared there are people, whom I have read right here basically poo-pooing the idea of a unifying force that some may hang the name God on, are sending this unfortunate TB'er "good karma" and "positive vibes", etc. I just find it unusual that some deny on one hand and then evoke pagan mysticism and terms that elude that energy (vibes) are being radiated in support of our friend. "I hope this turns out" would be more appropriate.

Just because someone doesn't believe in a god doesn't mean they can't believe in some unifying force in the universe. I should know, as I'm one of those people

 

[12bass]

Just because someone doesn't believe in a god doesn't mean they can't believe in some unifying force in the universe.

I believe it is called "beer".

 

[96tbird]

It was an observation. Directly related to where this thread has gone. Wow, observations are ok as long as they don't challenge people to think it seems.

Just go back on this thread a bit and see some basically saying your are silly for your creationist beliefs. Some used lots of pretty prose to, in summary, yes the word silly covers it. I don't think any belief is silly. I found the other thread very curious, when compared to what I had read over here. That is all there is to it.

 

[96tbird]

Just because someone doesn't believe in a god doesn't mean they can't believe in some unifying force in the universe. I should know, as I'm one of those people

Yes, and they might fall into the category of Pagan, no? Yet, I've met many that profess belief in nothing but science and curiously they will use terms like bad karma, etc. I just find it fascinating.

 

[12bass]

It was an observation. Directly related to where this thread has gone. Wow, observations are ok as long as they don't challenge people to think it seems.

Just go back on this thread a bit and see some basically saying your are silly for your creationist beliefs. Some used lots of pretty prose to, in summary, yes the word silly covers it. I don't think any belief is silly. I found the other thread very curious, when compared to what I had read over here. That is all there is to it.

Perhaps it depends on how one interprets the term 'belief'. For a philosopher, the utterance "I believe x" is equivalent to claiming that x is true. Further, truth claims are subject to rational/evidential justification. Thus, it follows that belief statements must be qualified by sufficient reasons/evidence in order to meet an acceptable epistemic standard. Belief statements which cannot meet such a standard are rejected.

Laypeople tend to use 'belief' in a much less rigorous fashion... as in "I believe that the Vikings are going to win the Super Bowl this year". That sort of statement is not an assertion of fact... more like wishful thinking....

 

[96tbird]

Well, I wasn't using belief in the incorrect form. I think the fact I was speaking of belief systems, or absence of, made that clear. However, I agree and find that type of usage curious as well and wonder how it came to be misused like that. "I don't believe in leaving a tip", or some such.

 

[12bass]

Things might be even more subtle than suggested above.... When I say I believe something, I generally mean that I know it to be true, not that I think it might be true, seems likely, or that I wish it were true. However, many people use the word in a much looser way, as in asserting beliefs in things which they could not possibly know to be true. It is the assertion of belief where considerable uncertainty exists that is problematic.... like: "I believe in ancient astronauts"....

 

[96tbird]

True, but on the other hand, the definition of believe includes faith in something and proof is not a requirement.

But to say "I believe in ancient astronauts" is problematic; what do you believe about them? That they came here? Etc. Saying that you believe in God is not the same problem; there is a document that holds tenets of the belief, just as evolution has. This usage is correct.

 

[jmattbassplaya]

Things might be even more subtle than suggested above.... When I say I believe something, I generally mean that I know it to be true, not that I think it might be true, seems likely, or that I wish it were true. However, many people use the word in a much looser way, as in asserting beliefs in things which they could not possibly know to be true. It is the assertion of belief where considerable uncertainty exists that is problematic.... like: "I believe in ancient astronauts"....

The actual definition of belief doesn't mean to know something to be factual...

 

[12bass]

The actual definition of belief doesn't mean to know something to be factual...

Wasn't aware that there was a single, unique, definition of the term.

What I was attempting to do above was clarify is how the term is used by philosophers.

Belief (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)

Belief Contemporary analytic philosophers of mind generally use the term “belief” to refer to the attitude we have, roughly, whenever we take something to be the case or regard it as true. To believe something, in this sense, needn't involve actively reflecting on it: Of the vast number of things ordinary adults believe, only a few can be at the fore of the mind at any single time. Nor does the term “belief”, in standard philosophical usage, imply any uncertainty or any extended reflection about the matter in question (as it sometimes does in ordinary English usage). Many of the things we believe, in the relevant sense, are quite mundane: that we have heads, that it's the 21st century, that a coffee mug is on the desk. Forming beliefs is thus one of the most basic and important features of the mind, and the concept of belief plays a crucial role in both philosophy of mind and epistemology.

 

[jmattbassplaya]

Wasn't aware that there was a single, unique, definition of the term.

What I was attempting to do above was clarify is how the term is used by philosophers.

Belief (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)

Gotcha. To me, that just seems to cause too much confusion when you're discussing beliefs and actual scientific theories (for instance evolution in this thread).

 

[Munjibunga]

Things might be even more subtle than suggested above.... When I say I believe something, I generally mean that I know it to be true, not that I think it might be true, seems likely, or that I wish it were true. However, many people use the word in a much looser way, as in asserting beliefs in things which they could not possibly know to be true. It is the assertion of belief where considerable uncertainty exists that is problematic.... like: "I believe in ancient astronauts"....

I believe I'll have another beer. Well ... not really. Another Propel maybe.

Many people have trouble differentiating between belief and knowledge. For me, all my beliefs are tentative. Like you, I won't say I believe something unless there is compelling evidence to support it. Even so, I always leave the door open for new information to change my perspective (yes, jmatt, it's true). But it takes compelling evidence.

 

[jmattbassplaya]

I believe I'll have another beer. Well ... not really. Another Propel maybe.

Many people have trouble differentiating between belief and knowledge. For me, all my beliefs are tentative. Like you, I won't say I believe something unless there is compelling evidence to support it. Even so, I always leave the door open for new information to change my perspective (yes, jmatt, it's true). But it takes compelling evidence.

Haha, I have no issues with you Munji. We disagree on some things and agree on others. At the end of the day, I always respect and appreciate your opinions and thoughts on topics - especially ones we don't agree on