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Which Is Louder, 2x10 or 1x15?

#63
I would like to re-phase the question to view the topic in a slightly different angle.

between a cab with a single driver and a cab with multiple identical drivers.

with equal vd​
and equal internal cab volume
(please feel free to add other parameters)

will there be sufficient different in SPL?
 
#64
tallboybass said:
So, what are all these other posts for? ;)
Click to expand...

I think the posts are helpful in understanding what all the various and complex details are in making accurate measurements and that what manufacturers typically publish along these lines gives us a very general idea of how we may expect a product to perform.

Numbers aside, the answer to me has always been "trust your ears". Fortunately/unfortunately, that trust is earned through years of experienced listening and a sort of intuitive sense of how things sound out in the room versus on stage.

With so many "boutique" (ie, expensive) speaker cabs available today, it's critical that we not be "wowed" by specs, or even the opinion of other bassists. You have to live with a piece of gear over a few different gigs in different rooms to really understand how it can be applied to your needs. This is particularly true for speaker cabinets, as they can drastically change your sound when keeping all other parameters unchanged, IMHO.
 
#65
billfitzmaurice said:
It's not beyond the realm of possibility, and lying about your test results is sheer stupidity, as anyone with a computer, a microphone and a clue can out you. OTOH linear response over that bandwidth off-axis is exceedingly difficult to achieve, and might explain why they only show on-axis measurements. Caveat Emptor.
Click to expand...

Only reason I ask is simply that the range is very impressive IF its true, especially considering its basically a line array setup of the same driver. User reviews are often a decent way to see how accurate a products description is (well, I guess it depends on how experiences the users are of course).
And I rarely take a manufacturers word for anything without letting my ears be the judgment :D
 
#68
adbass said:
I think the posts are helpful in understanding what all the various and complex details are in making accurate measurements and that what manufacturers typically publish along these lines gives us a very general idea of how we may expect a product to perform.

Numbers aside, the answer to me has always been "trust your ears". Fortunately/unfortunately, that trust is earned through years of experienced listening and a sort of intuitive sense of how things sound out in the room versus on stage.

With so many "boutique" (ie, expensive) speaker cabs available today, it's critical that we not be "wowed" by specs, or even the opinion of other bassists. You have to live with a piece of gear over a few different gigs in different rooms to really understand how it can be applied to your needs. This is particularly true for speaker cabinets, as they can drastically change your sound when keeping all other parameters unchanged, IMHO.
Click to expand...
Totally agree. This thread turned into a very cool, informative one. I was just pokin' back at Ken. :)

I appreciate this thread if only because I'd thought that 2-10s had more surface area than a 15. Wrong.
 
#71
nodestiny said:
User reviews are often a decent way to see how accurate a products description is (well, I guess it depends on how experiences the users are of course).
And I rarely take a manufacturers word for anything without letting my ears be the judgment :D
Click to expand...

FWIW, I've found there are some TBers with whom I have similar tastes. The reviews here on TB can be informative if not definitive.

The berg IP series, for one, has gotten rave reviews by lots of folks here and the one chance i got to hear the IP112 it was pretty impressive.

I should also note that contacting manufacturers to try out some expensive piece of gear is usually doable. I just did that actually, with the item on loan for a week, and ended up buying the item.
 
#72
This is what makes it both frustrating and fun. You can't trust the specs, it's impossible to do head to head comparisons with everything you want to consider and what you hear in the showroom may sound completely different in a crowded bar. So what's left? Here's the fun part, play as many different cabs as you can, trust your ears and buy from a reputable company.

I tried reading through Greenboy"s fearful thread and I'm sorry but the science overwhelmed me. I'm not a dumb guy and I can understand technical stuff but digesting all of that was more than I wanted to do. Now I may build one just for fun and see how it sounds but I'll leave the calculations to Greenboy (and certainly not some of the people in this thread).
 
#73
RJC1811 said:
digesting all of that was more than I wanted to do. Now I may build one just for fun and see how it sounds but I'll leave the calculations to Greenboy (and certainly not some of the people in this thread).
Click to expand...

Imagine my surprise when a technical investigation on waveguide technology led me to a thread with over 350 thousand posts at another forum! Of course many of those were asking questions that had already been replied to, and chat, but still... it was diggin' to get to the facts and the measurements.
 
#74
greenboy said:
Imagine my surprise when a technical investigation on waveguide technology led me to a thread with over 350 thousand posts at another forum! Of course many of those were asking questions that had already been replied to, and chat, but still... it was diggin' to get to the facts and the measurements.
Click to expand...

Im always up for something new! (or refreshing if nothing else)... have a link to that by chance?
 
#76
nodestiny said:
Im always up for something new! (or refreshing if nothing else)... have a link to that by chance?
Click to expand...

Invalid Link Removed

I was wrong about the number though - and it's only 373 pages, with tons of charts and photos. And it was crossthreading content with several other threads there, and a few on some other serious audio sites. I read all those too, since some of the names posting are real big in the science and patent area, as well as implimenting thereof.
 
#80
babebambi said:
I would like to re-phase the question to view the topic in a slightly different angle.

between a cab with a single driver and a cab with multiple identical drivers.

with equal vd​
and equal internal cab volume
(please feel free to add other parameters)

will there be sufficient different in SPL?
Click to expand...
Yes. Radiation efficiency doubles with every doublng of driver count, though there is a finite limit of about 25% efficiency. But as a single driver has only 2% or so efficiency there's quite a bit of room available for improvement.
Only reason I ask is simply that the range is very impressive IF its true, especially considering its basically a line array setup of the same driver.
Click to expand...
Phil Jones Bass cabs aren't line arrays, they're cluster arrays, and that's the fly in the off-axis response ointment. Cluster arrays are gosh-awful off-axis unless they are very highly, read that very expensively, engineered.
 

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