Which records more easily: Precision or Stingray?

[dukeorock]

it would be nice to hear a couple of engineers' take on it.

The thread had got a bit long, but I recall a couple folks who have engineered chimed in.

I only occasionally engineer the stuff I work on. Prefer letting someone else sweat those details, but I do remote sessions where I engineer my bass stuff. Not sure if this is helpful, but one of my side bands (Prayer Flags) recently put out our first record and I engineered the entire thing. I used 5 different basses, depending on which one I felt sat best in the track.

1. Peavey T-40
2. Drake w/ TV Jones a Thunder’Blade pickups
3. First Act CS Hollowbody (1 song)
4. Gibson G3 (one song)
5. Fender AM STD P bass

By the time I mixed the record I could barely remember which bass I used. It all just sounded like me, for better or worse.

 

[Tom Baker]

This a LONG thread. Having owned several of each, engineered local release records with players that had both I'm going to vote for a P Bass. Stingrays are great though and if it's slappity funk I'd give it the nod...everything else P Bass.

YMMV

 

[BostonBassBob]

I started thinking about this the other day when my teacher mentioned a country/rock artist for which he recently did session work. My teacher is a Lakland endorser, and LOVES his 44-60, but seems to be using his Precision often in the studio. This got me thinking about Leo Fender’s other single humbucker creation, the Stingray. I want to hear from guys with serious studio time about which is easier to get a good tone out of for recording and why.

Ok... So I'm a 62 year old assist... I've played since a small kid, my dad was a big band player.. and so on.. I own about 200 guitars and bases.... my first time in a studio, I had my 1972 4001 Rick in hand (17 years old ,8 track Boston studio...) the engineer came to me after the first take and said "can you do that again with a pick".. internally I was insulted and pissed, but I kept a cool professional exterior attitude and asked a few questions, but he wanted a pick .. I expected a wonderful Chris Squire sound to result, but it came out clear and flat... as the song needed. Over the years I added new and vintage basses... I still have my 1976 stingray and did the studio thumb thing... by then I had years of experience and when the engineer came to me (Los Angles about 1977) and asked try a pick, I instructed him on the proper use of a compressor. He and I remain friends to this day and we have learned much from each other over the years.
In short, it comes down to the cleanness of the player, the cleverness of the engineer, and the quality of the "specific" bass... after going thru many p-basses, I have a 1959 P-bass which has that perfect, clean, flat yet watery sound that is most desirable 99% of the time (I typically go to the studio with 4 or 5 basses, spare strings etc. .. BE PREPARED.
IF you can afford a single bass.. make that bass work for you.. (1)work your technique, (2) learn about bass recording techniques and insure (friendly) that the engineer and you agree (short of him firing you) , work your bass.. try foam , picks, someone who has practiced technique should be able to nurse a wide variety of sounds, using variety of picks, strings and string dead-ners , hand styles, picking location and so forth.... All the best to you !

 

[Omega Monkey]

Honestly, I think most of the people in this thread are either working with horrible inexperienced engineers, or just basing their comments on stereotypes that they've heard.

And I definitely agree on the "acceptable mediocrity" thing. I mean, you have guys here in bands that say "well, I guess I'll just play brown eyed girl and livin on a prayer because that's what people apparently want to hear", well maybe if you grew a pair of balls and took a chance on some playing great songs that aren't beat to death, people would like those too. I mean yeah, a P bass is a bass, so it will fill the function of a bass. It's about as traditional as it gets so it's inoffensive in most types of music. But it's not "easier to record" unless the engineer is a total hack. And if I was running a studio and a band came in that wanted to do Animals as Leaders kind of stuff and the guy had a P bass, I might wonder how serious they are, because that's just not really the sound of that kind of music. In that case, a P would probably be harder to work with because they don't have a lot of definition up top. So playing intricate lines along with downtuned guitars, you need to have a bit more edge, and something like a MM, Dingwall, Ibanez, Kiesel, etc... would probably be more appropriate.

But even then it's still less about being "easy" or difficult to record, and more about stylistic appropriateness (which should be sorted out long before the band gets to the studio).

 

[kawalsh]

I started thinking about this the other day when my teacher mentioned a country/rock artist for which he recently did session work. My teacher is a Lakland endorser, and LOVES his 44-60, but seems to be using his Precision often in the studio. This got me thinking about Leo Fender’s other single humbucker creation, the Stingray. I want to hear from guys with serious studio time about which is easier to get a good tone out of for recording and why.

Having your bass set up really well for your playing style is important, especially if you use a lot of high end. I think that using optimum mics and micing techniques are far more important than what bass you are playing. I have found this to be true with everything from a P bass to an upright.

 

[jazzman39]

I have a 2006 MusicMan Sterling that I play when performing live. It has the best live sound I have ever heard, when paired with an SWR Goliath cabinet. I picked up on this combo from Bob Birch (Elton John). When it comes to studio, I have a Rock Maple 1977 Precision with an extra Jazz pickup added, that records better than any of my other basses. The Precision sounds good live, but it is heavy as hell. It really takes a toll on the back and shoulder over a 4 hour gig.

 

[donCameron]

it would be nice to hear a couple of engineers' take on it.

As an engineer and bass player (among other things), my main problems recording other bassists has been:

The player
The bass setup (intonation, pickup height, etc.)
Old/bad/the wrong type of strings

Personally, before I got my two P basses, I used an Ibanez SR400 fretless and never had a problem with it sitting right in the mix. I used Fender Tapewounds at the time (mainly for comfort), but never had a problem with the tone. So I really don't think that one bass is necessarily best for recording. I do love my Ps though.

 

[Craig4003]

As an engineer and bass player (among other things), my main problems recording other bassists has been:

The player
The bass setup (intonation, pickup height, etc.)
Old/bad/the wrong type of strings

What kind of strings is "the wrong type"?

 

[donCameron]

What kind of strings is "the wrong type"?

I should have said old/bad/dead strings. That is the main problem. But I have had guys come in with the wrong string choice. Had a guy bring in an early sixties P bass that he put low tension rounds on. The had so much "relief" on the neck that you could insert your thumb between the strings and fretboard at the 12 fret with room to spare.

 

[josephlevie]

I prefer and enjoy playing my '74 Precision with Jazz pickup more than any other bass I own. I have a few Jazz Basses as well. The Fenders feel better to me and have a lot more character than my StingRay (SR5). However, sometimes that character seems to get in the way of recording. Sometimes, the StingRay sounds more uniform and "professional" than the Fenders when recording. If it's more of a "hotter" part or solo or expressive part, I would choose the Precision (or, possibly the Gary Willis, sorry, off topic) and if it's more of a background or uniform or solid part, I would choose the Stingray (or, Rickenbacker 4003, again sorry).

Saying that, it just occurred to me that I mostly use my jazz pickup. Maybe my while statement's off topic.

Oops, also, my Precision, Jazz, Gary Willis and Stingray are fretless and my Jazz 5 and 4003 are fretted. Sometimes that's why I might grab one vs the other.

 

[Dave Hill]

Verse=P
Chorus=SR

Not sure I would’ve bothered switching, but, they both sound great.

 

[retslock]

Aw c'mon Doc!
You know exactly what all the P-bass guys are going to tell you!

For many, many years of studio experience I had so much positive comment from various studio engineers that my 1970 passive Precision recorded beautifully without help. No such response about my much loved early ‘80s Stingray, even after my asking on some occasions, what they thought. Why? In my opinion, the P suited a wider variety of styles than the harder edged Stingray sound. I still have that Precision and will never part with it. Sadly, the Stingray has moved on...(sold in a moment of poverty...musician’s have these from time to time).

 

[JimmyM]

You may pout but you cannot deny that acceptable mediocrity is the order of the day. Studios do not usually operate unlimited budgets with free time to make everything exactly perfect and symphonic.

In this commercial enterprise, there is a job to be done and a job done quick is money saved. This is not revelatory. If the record company can spend $100 of studio time getting a P bass to sound okay or $200 getting a Stingray to sound amazing, I would wager they'd take the cheap option because recorded music is very rarely 'art' and money talks.

I have been hearing that since time began, and invariably it's being said by people who are unhappy that their favorite type of music is no longer topping the sales charts. The classical players would say that about the blues players, the blues players would say that about the big band players, the big band players would say that about the rock players, the rock players would say that about the metal players, the metal players say that about the dance players, and so it goes and will continue to go for all eternity. It's scarcely an original thought.

I don't subscribe to the school of thought that Fender are easy to mix and everything else is simply more difficult to record well. There is only the question the skill and motivation of the studio staff. They know how to record a Fender quickly and easily but a good technician or engineer could easily get superb results from an Alembic or a Modulus - or whatever - if they just step out of their comfort zone for a second.

I don't disagree with that at all. And I see plenty of players making recordings with non-Fenders all the time. But if you're trying to equate creativity to the gear you use, that's a complete non-starter for me. I've heard some truly horrible and non-creative garbage made with Alembics and Modulus basses as well as some excellent stuff. The gear is neutral. It just sits there and waits for you to do something with it.

 

[Raulplaysbass]

Why not have both!!!



I’ve had the pleasure to record with a 76 Stingray, BC Rich w/ all the options, Jazz & P basses. To my ears and engineers & production comments pretty much selected the P bass 1st and Jazz 2nd. I think Leo nailed it early on. I personally like the feel and tone of the Ray in a live/rehearsal setting. (BTW-to my ears, setting the Rays eq at about mid way is the way to go. Otherwise it just overdrives the input too much. If I need more or less the slightest adjustment goes a long way). Also to my ears, the P sits better in the mix live or in the studio. But ultimately, whatever gets you there and how you like it is what matters.

Whit that said here’s a little fun project I’m working on.

Cheers!

 

[bobyoung53]

A Precision bass blends in and supports a band in a recording a Sting Ray sticks out in the mix, but I've never tried one in a studio, almost always a Fender Precision.

 

[bobyoung53]

I should have said old/bad/dead strings. That is the main problem. But I have had guys come in with the wrong string choice. Had a guy bring in an early sixties P bass that he put low tension rounds on. The had so much "relief" on the neck that you could insert your thumb between the strings and fretboard at the 12 fret with room to spare.

Maybe that's why he put the low tension strings on it.

 

[DWBass]

This demo was recorded using a Tobias Deluxe 5 with a touch of chorus. 2 band eq. Bass and treble flat.
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In all my years of recording mostly in NYC at some of the top studios and down here in SE Virginia, I have never used a P Bass.

I also used the Tobias on this band demo. This was recorded at the drummer's house. Had a nice little setup.
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[alpan254]

the sound comes from the fingers that s all about

 

[DWBass]

the sound comes from the fingers that's all about

Agreed. A bass would have to be in really bad shape not to sound good recorded. The P Bass thing must be mostly a rock and country thing. I seriously doubt any urban gospel recording has a P Bass on it unless it's by older musicians playing quartet style. Smooth jazz, fusion jazz, contemporary jazz.......I would say it's a very low % of P Bass. But it's not a total washout. The guy from Snarky Puppy plays a P Bass. With all the plug-ins available in ProTools, you can make any bass sound like any bass through any type of rig on the planet.

 

[Dr. Cheese]

This is a noisegate that my wife bought me for Christmas. I got it to tame the hum from TMB605 or when I solo a pickup on my DJ5. There is no reason why an engineer can’t use one on a noisy bass in the studio.

DW, the time the guy handed me a jacked up Precision to play, it was when my band was making
a demo at a little studio in Cayce, South Carolina. I seriously doubt if they had much experience with the Funk we were playing.

Agreed. A bass would have to be in really bad shape not to sound good recorded. The P Bass thing must be mostly a rock and country thing. I seriously doubt any urban gospel recording has a P Bass on it unless it's by older musicians playing quartet style. Smooth jazz, fusion jazz, contemporary jazz.......I would say it's a very low % of P Bass. But it's not a total washout. The guy from Snarky Puppy plays a P Bass. With all the plug-ins available in ProTools, you can make any bass sound like any bass through any type of rig on the planet.