Which records more easily: Precision or Stingray?

[DrayMiles]

Not really. I've got two P basses and I think that any well built bass, with good strings and a great player will record great.

I have never owned a precision, and recently acquired a Jazz copy... But...
After 40+ years of playing and about 50 records and thousands of gigs... If I needed a go to bass for gigs and
session work going on MY experience...

Precision... Period.

Gary Moore told me he needed me to play it in order for him to get "his" sound. There are variations on good
tone whether Alembic, Stingray, Jazz, Ripper, Grabber, etc., but the PBass is a standard safe bet. Don't forget Patrice Rushen's "forget me nots"... Slapped PBAss...

If you've got a Stingray, a Jazz, and a Precision, you've got everything covered, one way or another... In regards to live/studio. I've always wanted one, but getting a good one isn't hard, but an exceptional one is... IMO...

 

[Omega Monkey]

When I said easier to record, I meant a bass with sonic characteristics that allowed its sound to be more easily captured during the recording process.

They both put out a signal sufficient to be picked up through a DI or miked cab.

Generic...lol! That's the word of people who are pissed that their favorite gear isn't the most popular.

Honestly I couldn't care less if my favorite gear was "the most popular". Actually it means I can get smoking deals on stuff because it's not overhyped. I paid like $250 for my used Reverend guitar, which I think the street price new (which it basically was) was about 700. I paid a total of $500 for 2 killer Yamaha basses that BURY any single fender I could buy for that.

Anyway, if I just wanted to sound like everyone else, why even show up in the first place?

Not to open up a can of worms, aren't most recording engineers more receptive to flatwound strings in general (due to having less overtones) and less partial to the actual bass brand/model? That's what I've read somewhere anyway.

Nope. If anything it would be the opposite. You can always take it out in mixing, but you can never put it back in if it wasn't there in the first place. Unless you are specifically going for the flatwound P sound for stylistic reasons.

That's a nice thought if you are paying the bill, but if you are doing a session gig speed and accuracy are money. If an engineer can dial in a sound quickly with one bass it will trump one an engineer has to fiddle with. I've also done sessions where you will show up and they will hand you a bass they want you to record with. If I'm being paid, I just smile and grab the bass.

If I'm going to spend money on an actual studio, it's because I want the BEST possible sound, not to just knock out something that's "good enough".

 

[foal30]

Three different times in the 90s I was told that my Steinberger XL2 was the best bass they ever recorded. Listening back to those recordings I think it sounds godawful. Maybe it was the time period? Maybe the player?

Tony Levin was recorded so much over the past four decades. I wonder the ratio is regarding stingray vs. precision. Then again, he could probably make my old steiny sound better than I did...

I always bring my L2 Steinberger to recording sessions.

 

[AngelCrusher]

Ah, string noise. For my last set of recordings I went in with steel round wounds. That was a mistake. I ended up spending way too much time editing out string noise - especially on the track where I used my maple boarded Jazz. I think that, when it comes to recording, the strings make as much difference as the bass.

Yep. Matters the genre. I know guys in metal who restring the bassist on steels every few songs. They also check the tune on them every single take.


For less extreme music and finger style bass, i think the squeeks can be brutal as well.

 

[FugaziBomb]

There are a lot of Precisions that sound different from each other, so...

I've got 3 basses with P pups in the traditional spot, one with Geezers, one with DMZ split Ps and one with SD "Hot for P's" and while each one has its own flavor, they all still sound like variations of P Bass to me, despite being extremely different pickups. I think the location and design of P Pups only allows for so much variance, where multi pickup basses have variations for each pickups and the combined phase cancellations opens up a whole crazy different tone spectrum where two Jazzes can sound WAY different. I realize I might sound like a hater, but I've done too much session work with P Basses to shun them with a straight face.

 

[GreyBeard]

After reading and thinking about this for a while, it depends on the gig. If you are Victor Wooten or Marcus Miller, or Stanley Clark, you play whatever the heck you want and NOBODY will tell you "I get MY sound best if you play brand XXX bass". On the other hand, if you get a call from Lady GaGa and her music director say, "we think a p-bass works best with her music" you darn well pull out a p-bass. When I go in for a blind session, I bring a 4 string p-bass and a 5 string SR5 fretless.

I also have a small recording studio where I record local bands for demo CD's. I have a set of plugins that are basically EQ, compression, and the Ampeg amp plugin that I always use on the bass track. I've had good luck getting just about any bass to sit in the mix. Another trick I like to use is to side chain a compressor plugin to the bass guitar that is triggered by the kick. It ducks the bass guitar and lets the kick come through eliminating the mud. I don't use it on every setup but it does work well when you need it.

 

[W.Roberts]

I started thinking about this the other day when my teacher mentioned a country/rock artist for which he recently did session work. My teacher is a Lakland endorser, and LOVES his 44-60, but seems to be using his Precision often in the studio. This got me thinking about Leo Fender’s other single humbucker creation, the Stingray. I want to hear from guys with serious studio time about which is easier to get a good tone out of for recording and why.[/QUOTE

Coming out of U of Miami with cats like Will Lee, we had a very similar sound right in the 500hz range. My bass was a 1957 Precision using LaBella heavy gauge flats now called the Jamerson set. It was stock for Fender until the advent of Rotosound where Jaco made his fortune, that and the Acoustic 360, the only amp on the market that punched harder than Mohammed Ali. I did tons of sessions for Ivan Tors, TK Studios, Criteria and Triradial (?) in Ft. Laud. I would go straight into the board EQ flat. I could nail the VU's right to the wall. But that was the sound of the time commercially speaking. All the producers wanted that sound. Will took it to NYC and the vintage P bass pretty much remains his core sound. I owned an EB Music Man Stingray Classic 4 from 2014 - 17 and recorded with it around the Tampa Bay and Clearwater area. I was using Rotosound rounds. The sound of the Stingray classic was utterly terrific but one could tell it was an active pick-up. It was indeed a funky, funky bass (I've some videos jes' messin' around and you can hear that funk). I traded it dead even for my now beloved G&L JB with Rotosound 77's. It is as vintage, full bodied and even more so than my '57 Precision. It is a funk machine. And the most wonderful sound I think I ever had in any bass. However, the best recording bass I had was a Gibson made Tobias sort of Killer B but the body was polyurethane finish, not the satin finish on the actual Killer B's and it was sort of shoddy made. It was in tune definitely and using now defunct Dean Markley Will Lee gauge for 5 string, there was a WALLOP to the sound I've never had since. Terrible live sound. Awful. In the studio the Bartolini's sang s huge.

My point -- depends on the music at hand and what one wants to hear but is acceptable to your producer. The P bass was at that time all one needed. Max Bennett, Joe Osborne, Carol Kaye, Louis Satterfield -- everybody was using genuine Fenders, Labella flats run straight through the mixing console EQ'ed flat as a pancake 'cause the entire frequency range of the instrument was so wide, one could doctor it up any way one wanted and all the sound was there. I still am known for one basic sound and it is that -- the P bass vintage and punchy on the G&L and people have remarked how vintage the sound it. Vintage is making a comeback -- so (hint hint) give me a call on the Skype or somethin'....

 

[DrayMiles]

They both put out a signal sufficient to be picked up through a DI or miked cab.



Honestly I couldn't care less if my favorite gear was "the most popular". Actually it means I can get smoking deals on stuff because it's not overhyped. I paid like $250 for my used Reverend guitar, which I think the street price new (which it basically was) was about 700. I paid a total of $500 for 2 killer Yamaha basses that BURY any single fender I could buy for that.

Anyway, if I just wanted to sound like everyone else, why even show up in the first place?



Nope. If anything it would be the opposite. You can always take it out in mixing, but you can never put it back in if it wasn't there in the first place. Unless you are specifically going for the flatwound P sound for stylistic reasons.



If I'm going to spend money on an actual studio, it's because I want the BEST possible sound, not to just knock out something that's "good enough".

Please don't take this the wrong way, but I'm genuinely curious when I see folks on here with a similar perspective as yours... So I'm trying to understand.

1. Have you actually done any session work that you were hired to do?
2. Are you old enough to play in bars or clubs?
3. Have you come to your beliefs based on your experiences or what you believe should be the norm as a working bassist?
4. Your comment "if I just wanted to sound like everyone else, why even show up in the first place?" I personally feel might have merit in a popstar, solo artist position, but do you feel that it holds any merit for those who just want to pay their bills playing music by any and all means?

I really hope there is something thought out in some of your proclamations and I mean no disrespect. I'm hoping to understand how you can say some of these things... From my perspective only, which can only be different than yours obviously. Thank you...

Cheers,

D.

 

[JimmyM]

I've got 3 basses with P pups in the traditional spot, one with Geezers, one with DMZ split Ps and one with SD "Hot for P's" and while each one has its own flavor, they all still sound like variations of P Bass to me, despite being extremely different pickups. I think the location and design of P Pups only allows for so much variance, where multi pickup basses have variations for each pickups and the combined phase cancellations opens up a whole crazy different tone spectrum where two Jazzes can sound WAY different. I realize I might sound like a hater, but I've done too much session work with P Basses to shun them with a straight face.

Yeah, I suppose that's a reasonable stance. OK, I approve

 

[JimmyM]

Honestly I couldn't care less if my favorite gear was "the most popular". Actually it means I can get smoking deals on stuff because it's not overhyped. I paid like $250 for my used Reverend guitar, which I think the street price new (which it basically was) was about 700. I paid a total of $500 for 2 killer Yamaha basses that BURY any single fender I could buy for that.

You had me right up until...

Anyway, if I just wanted to sound like everyone else, why even show up in the first place?

Does Mike Dirnt sound like Jamerson? Does Duck sound like Dave Hope from Kansas? Does Dee Dee Ramone sound like Pino Palladino? Does John Lodge sound like Nate Mendel?

 

[W.Roberts]

I have never owned a precision, and recently acquired a Jazz copy... But...
After 40+ years of playing and about 50 records and thousands of gigs... If I needed a go to bass for gigs and
session work going on MY experience...

Precision... Period.

Gary Moore told me he needed me to play it in order for him to get "his" sound. There are variations on good
tone whether Alembic, Stingray, Jazz, Ripper, Grabber, etc., but the PBass is a standard safe bet. Don't forget Patrice Rushen's "forget me nots"... Slapped PBAss...

If you've got a Stingray, a Jazz, and a Precision, you've got everything covered, one way or another... In regards to live/studio. I've always wanted one, but getting a good one isn't hard, but an exceptional one is... IMO...

Surely there is the sound of the instrument itself. If one plays to the singer, I mean nuanced or attack or restraint but plays with excellent time -- let the lead(er) be your guide. For me, it's always been about enhancement in the grandest manner possible in every genre I was able to play; heard but not seen. And no one wants my ugly old man puss around unless the event is strictly the quality of music as an art.

I sure miss the days of R&B.

 

[DrayMiles]

You had me right up until...

Does Mike Dirnt sound like Jamerson? Does Duck sound like Dave Hope from Kansas? Does Dee Dee Ramone sound like Pino Palladino? Does John Lodge sound like Nate Mendel?

I’m sorry, I’m with this brother’s irrefutable logic. It’s as potent as Godzilla finding the”one” and patting his toe jam to the beat...

“You and I... Dance to the beat of a different drum” seems to apply to all kinds of folks on TB!

 

[Omega Monkey]

My views are based on 30+ years of varied musical experience, including working professionally as a live sound engineer (plus plenty of recording). As an engineer for hire, I couldn't care less what bass someone has as long as it works and the strings are serviceable. Most of my suggestions in that case will be to get things working on the technical side (ie more or less mids on the bass/amp, more/less gain, etc...), or sometimes aesthetic suggestions. But basically I want to capture the bassist's tone faithfully and with as much fidelity as is the goal (for me personally that's "all of it").

Why is your assumption that the majority of bassists are working as mercenaries where the primary goal is speed and not quality?

Anyway, I find basses tend to fall into "groups", tonally speaking and for a given setting, any bass in the appropriate group or groups should work fine. Music is really wide open, so sometimes you want a "classic" sound (and if I wanted to make my Yamahas sound like a P, I doubt many would be able to pick them out of a lineup, especially in a mix), sometimes you want something a little more unique. You are basically not going to get anything unique out of a P until you start adding other gear (pedals, amp, cabs, etc..) for the most part (or changing pickups, etc...). Inside those "groups" each bass will have it's own variations and differences.

Ps are great when theyre great, other times not so much. It really depends on what you're going for, so you can't really make a blanket statement of "this is the best for recording", especially if you're going to keep it that impossibly broad. If you want an 80s King Crimson or Peter Gabriel sound, guess what, a MM (and a Trace for bonus points) will get you 90% of the way there. You can make a P sound good there but it won't be "the sound".

 

[DrayMiles]

Surely there is the sound of the instrument itself. If one plays to the singer, I mean nuanced or attack or restraint but plays with excellent time -- let the lead(er) be your guide. For me, it's always been about enhancement in the grandest manner possible in every genre I was able to play; heard but not seen. And no one wants my ugly old man puss around unless the event is strictly the quality of music as an art.

I sure miss the days of R&B.

It certainly had a lot of non digitally enhanced innovation going on. And you had more than one album to get it right on a major label...

 

[JimmyM]

Ps are great when theyre great, other times not so much. It really depends on what you're going for, so you can't really make a blanket statement of "this is the best for recording", especially if you're going to keep it that impossibly broad. If you want an 80s King Crimson or Peter Gabriel sound, guess what, a MM (and a Trace for bonus points) will get you 90% of the way there. You can make a P sound good there but it won't be "the sound".

If I were concerned with that, I'd have a rack with 15 different basses on it for every gig

 

[FugaziBomb]

Does Mike Dirnt sound like Jamerson? Does Duck sound like Dave Hope from Kansas? Does Dee Dee Ramone sound like Pino Palladino? Does John Lodge sound like Nate Mendel?

Exactly. Just because two basses sound similar, in different hands they can be drastically different.

 

[DrayMiles]

My views are based on 30+ years of varied musical experience, including working professionally as a live sound engineer (plus plenty of recording). As an engineer for hire, I couldn't care less what bass someone has as long as it works and the strings are serviceable. Most of my suggestions in that case will be to get things working on the technical side (ie more or less mids on the bass/amp, more/less gain, etc...), or sometimes aesthetic suggestions. But basically I want to capture the bassist's tone faithfully and with as much fidelity as is the goal (for me personally that's "all of it").

Why is your assumption that the majority of bassists are working as mercenaries where the primary goal is speed and not quality?

Anyway, I find basses tend to fall into "groups", tonally speaking and for a given setting, any bass in the appropriate group or groups should work fine. Music is really wide open, so sometimes you want a "classic" sound (and if I wanted to make my Yamahas sound like a P, I doubt many would be able to pick them out of a lineup, especially in a mix), sometimes you want something a little more unique. You are basically not going to get anything unique out of a P until you start adding other gear (pedals, amp, cabs, etc..) for the most part (or changing pickups, etc...). Inside those "groups" each bass will have it's own variations and differences.

Ps are great when theyre great, other times not so much. It really depends on what you're going for, so you can't really make a blanket statement of "this is the best for recording", especially if you're going to keep it that impossibly broad. If you want an 80s King Crimson or Peter Gabriel sound, guess what, a MM (and a Trace for bonus points) will get you 90% of the way there. You can make a P sound good there but it won't be "the sound".

I don’t recall speed being mentioned, but I understand your position more clearly now. I can’t disagree, but I hope the next generation will understand the basics and do something like Levin and Shri and others have... I find the instruments secondary to innovation. Heck, Van Halen’s beat Up strat certainly stood out... or was it Eddie?

 

[JimmyM]

Why is your assumption that the majority of bassists are working as mercenaries where the primary goal is speed and not quality?

Why is your assumption that you can't have both?

 

[Omega Monkey]

Honestly, prioritizing speed at all in the studio is usually going to be counterproductive. People get tense and don't play as well or listen as closely. Numerous people have lauded Ps as "fast" to record. To me that's first of all false, but secondly it's about the last thing you should really be worried about it. "Does it sound good for the track?" should be number one and anything else is a distant second.

What you really want is to work EFFICIENTLY but not hurriedly. There's nothing inefficient about a MM or any number of non-Fender basses if that's what you're going for. There's nothing mythical about the P bass. It's a great all purpose bass and they were the default for a lot of stuff because they were the first/only. But not we have many many many many many many more options to use. So we should use them. If P's were so perfect, why don't we just burn all the rest and have everyone play a P? How many of you would sign up for that? How many of the "oh, just always use a P to record" people play something COMPLETELY different the whole rest of the time. Why wouldn't you just record with THAT bass? Maybe it's because I think being a joiner is stupid but to me just recording everything with a P goes against everything great about music. It's all those little variation and changes that make things interesting. Why did Queen use a Wurlitzer instead of the much "better" Rhodes on Youre My Best Friend? I dont know but THAT'S the sound of the track. Meanwhile, Pink Floyd's Sheep would not be the same with a Wurli instead of the Rhodes. It's all about finding the right tools for the job. Sometimes that will be a P, but it should never be assumed that it will be just because it's been around the longest. That's just pure laziness.

So my "final answer" is "whatever the bassist feels most comfortable with and inspired by and sounds good in the track".

 

[JimmyM]

Honestly, prioritizing speed at all in the studio is usually going to be counterproductive. People get tense and don't play as well or listen as closely. Numerous people have lauded Ps as "fast" to record. To me that's first of all false, but secondly it's about the last thing you should really be worried about it. "Does it sound good for the track?" should be number one and anything else is a distant second.

And that's why there are certain people who get paid pretty decent sums of money to show up and record music they never heard before. They can prioritize speed yet lay down a track with all the feeling and style in the world, and they'll do it on any bass you want them to use.

What you really want is to work EFFICIENTLY but not hurriedly. There's nothing inefficient about a MM or any number of non-Fender basses if that's what you're going for. There's nothing mythical about the P bass. It's a great all purpose bass and they were the default for a lot of stuff because they were the first/only. But not we have many many many many many many more options to use. So we should use them. If P's were so perfect, why don't we just burn all the rest and have everyone play a P? How many of you would sign up for that? How many of the "oh, just always use a P to record" people play something COMPLETELY different the whole rest of the time. Why wouldn't you just record with THAT bass? Maybe it's because I think being a joiner is stupid but to me just recording everything with a P goes against everything great about music.

LOL! You're making way too much out of it. Not everyone who records for sessions is asked to play a Precision. And those who are aren't usually asked to do it for expediency and no other reason. That's simply a false assumption based on a theoretical question and a handful of anecdotes where people were asked to play a Precision instead of their regular bass. They're asked to do it because whoever's in charge thought it was the best choice for the session. And I did a session once where the producer asked me to play his MM Sterling instead of my Precision. And I was paying him, yet I listened to him because I respected him. If you pardon the expression, there's a "monkey wrench" for ya!

It's all those little variation and changes that make things interesting. Why did Queen use a Wurlitzer instead of the much "better" Rhodes on Youre My Best Friend? I dont know but THAT'S the sound of the track. Meanwhile, Pink Floyd's Sheep would not be the same with a Wurli instead of the Rhodes. It's all about finding the right tools for the job. Sometimes that will be a P, but it should never be assumed that it will be just because it's been around the longest. That's just pure laziness.

Queen and Pink Floyd could do whatever they wanted because they had monster albums before these sessions and unlimited budgets. To compare their situations with typical musicians for hire doing sessions where the difference between getting things done quickly and not raises the possibility of zero profit margin just plain doesn't fly. If you have a track record of hit albums and/or singles, you have that luxury. If not, you don't. Simple as that.

So my "final answer" is "whatever the bassist feels most comfortable with and inspired by and sounds good in the track".

And what did the bassists for Queen and Pink Floyd use most of the time?