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Which singer to pick?

Better voice or writing lyrics

  • The singer with the better voice

    Votes: 136 88.9%
  • The singer who writes lyrics

    Votes: 17 11.1%

  • Total voters
    153
Come on now. Dr. Feelgood sold six million copies. And your last album sold...?

Including teenage me.
I wasn't saying that they couldn't sell albums nor was I comparing my band to theirs. I was saying Vince Neil gave a hilariously horrible performance of a song with silly, trite, lyrics about a fool driving recklessly and overdosing on drugs. I can't imagine you're saying that albums sales is the measure of quality in music or lyrics?
 
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It depends upon the material. For heavy stuff - go with the singer. For lighter more message oriented material, I'd go with lyrics. Best of both worlds is obvious but from what you write, not available at the moment.
And I will go one further. Daniel Ash and Bauhaus had Peter Murphy on vocals, right? Man I just don't think Peters vocals were that great, almost a bit odd, but in that music, and with the writing and the direction into the dark rock genre, it worked. It's never easy. I did pick the better vocalist though. It will get you more gigs.
 
So we're auditioning singers for our metal group, and we've narrowed it down to two people. We're going to vote as a band to decide, but just curious what you guys would go for. Both singers are local, have gigging experience, play an instrument and there for understand what the rest of the band is doing, and seem like decent, easy to work with guys. The dilemma is, one singer isn't as strong, but has a lot of experience writing lyrics, where the other singer has a slightly better voice, but doesn't write lyrics, or at least hasn't yet. I can write lyrics well enough, and I think there is enough creativity within the group to come up with something, but which would you guys go for? Again, not going to be making a final decision bassed on the feedback here, just curious as to what you guys would do.

In the situation you described, I voted to select the better singer.
 
I'd go with the better singer because I write lyrics and i'm very picky about them. I've had problems with band members writing songs that were quite sexist, talking about it, being ignored and then having to sabotage the song when we played by jumping it on the setlist because they never payed attention to it. The guy got kinda angry but I was raised in a passive-aggressive house, so he'd never be able to win me at that.

It was 2011.

A few months later he got a girlfriend, she saw the lyrics, got angry, explained to him why and he later told me he was being an idiot and would be embarassed if we had ever played it live.
 
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The few metal albums I really like singing along to are not because of the lyrics, most metal lyrics are stupid. It's cause the songs are good and there's a good vocal. For me that would be like the black album, demanufacture, white pony, etc. some great songs and great vocals, all largely stupid lyrics.
 
Honestly, I've spent too many years in bands that couldn't write songs because there wasn't a good lyricist and eventually just fizzled out or became cover bands. So I would probably always lean more toward a guy who could write.

I think a lot of it depends on how far apart their singing ability is though. If like the non-lyric guy is a 9, but the lyric guy is a 7, then I'd go with the guy who can write. If it is more like the non-lyric guy is a 9 but the other guy is a 4, then I'd probably go with the pure singer.

That being said, I'm not a metal guy so your milage may vary. Though you might also want to make sure the lyric guy actually writes good songs too.
 
The "good stage presence" comments assume the band is focused on live performances, which is not a stated goal. It also wasn't stated as a differentiating factor, so the underlying assumption should be all else equal, and thus equal presence.

There are certainly bands out there with more of a focus on touring and playing out, and others more focused on producing recorded material. Again, we weren't given that information about this band.
 
The "good stage presence" comments assume the band is focused on live performances, which is not a stated goal. It also wasn't stated as a differentiating factor, so the underlying assumption should be all else equal, and thus equal presence.

There are certainly bands out there with more of a focus on touring and playing out, and others more focused on producing recorded material. Again, we weren't given that information about this band.

Good point, but I guess if the focus was to put out recorded material then having a good songwriter would be a better goal since a lot of vocal deficiencies can be fixed in post.
 
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If lyrics don't matter, neither does the bassline. I could make the same (wrong) argument. Look at all these rock basslines that are all pounding 8th notes = bass doesn't matter. There is no reason to play above the 5th fret, all that sort of useful folk-music advice that nonetheless can bind one to stagnation.

The nonsensical side of lyrics is no different than the medieval "down derry down" and "fa la la la la"'s. Lyrics have objectively become less complex in recent times, but the sillyness is ancient and does not mean lyrics aren't important even when they are "baby baby baby oh yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaah" - (perhaps the most important lyric let's face it..)

As bassists we know that rhythmic cadence is part and parcel of what we do - so it is with melody writing, which is almost always tied to the lyrics. You know how that one ghost note can make your bassline bump? Same thing happens in lyrics. Melody = pitch + rhythm, not pitch alone, and tied to lyrics. This is also my argument for Hip-Hop being Music - rapping does equal (rhythmic) melody.

I was 20 years into writing songs when I finally started taking workshops on writing songs. :wacky: Reading books, and soforth. The best I ever read , after taking several workshops with the author was this:

https://www.amazon.com/Songcrafters-Coloring-Book-Successful-Songwriting/dp/1453835660


This I find groundbreaking because he adds the concept of broad personality type as a WHY some lyrics "work" better than others, on the metaphorical level. Because 80% of the population is Extrovert-type, they will process the information of metaphors that link together as you would expect. But a large proportion of Creative types are I-types, and will write more "poetic" and metaphorically mixed lyrics that only make sense to them and certain special freaks. There is nothing wrong with this, but I found it an important hypothesis as to why some songs "work".

But even if you don't buy into the personality stuff, the importance of RHYTHMIC cadence is lyrics alone should cause us as bassists to take note - yes the lyrics are important, even if they are nonsense, and there are good arguments that strongly tied metaphors tend to get the majority of an audience listening better.

In summation, every part of a song's creation is important. Don't be lazy. Every note matters, every syllable, and IF our goal is to write accessible songs to the largest amount of people, other considerations come into play.
 
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Another important aspect not to over look in picking someone to be in the band... which person would you most want to hang out with? In the long run, most of time spent in the band is not spent actually playing music. Whether it is sitting in the studio writing or recording music, or spending time before or after a gig... a lot of time is just spent hanging out.
 
Like all genres, metal has some fantastic and deep lyrics and some utterly inane lyrics. Although there are a ton of 'subgenres' in metal in general there is some good singing happening as well as all the throat shredding (Mastodon, YOB being good examples of bands that sing and throat shred as well as newer Voivod). Go with the better singer if he has the better stage presence (can run around the stage at 90mph and yell "Scream for me Long Beach Arena! Scream for the IRON MAIDEN" or something like that - then you will have a good metal band).
 
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I think being good at making songs in general is more difficult than learning the technicalities of singing.

Choosing the right words and delivery is very important.

I am good at writing lyrics, but horrible at writing melodies for vocals. One of the guitarists in my band was really primitive as a guitar player, but had good taste and was amazing at writing vocal melodies (but not lyrics). He eventually learned more, but his talent for writing cool vocal lines and his good taste helped the whole way.
 
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