Who makes final decisions on setlists?

[john_g]

So I am trying to put together a new cover band with two female singers I met recently and a drummer and guitarist I played with in a previous band for over 5 years. When I was in the band with the drummer and guitarist, one of the biggest issues IMO was the setlist. 95% of the songs were not good choices for bars and clubs we played (lots of modest hits from the 70s and 80s that, even though we played well, were not songs most people were clamoring to hear). To top that off, we didnt change the setlist in over 2 years (even after I bugged and bugged to add new songs) which, again IMO, help lead to the demise of that band.

So i would like to keep a much tighter control over the setlist this time around. I am pretty easy going and will play most things if we can do it well and it goes over, but in initial emails to the guitarist, he started submitting ideas for songs and none are going to work in a bar or club. 70s and 80s stuff modest hits.

How do you folks approach what makes it into the setlist? Im afraid that even the democratic method of most votes wins doesnt work that well all the time...most of the songs we played in that old band were voted on and most didnt go over at all.

 

[PauFerro]

It depends on the culture of your band. Is it a peer-based band where everyone has a say? Or are you the leader who books the gigs, handles the money, provides the PA etcetera? And do you use the same people all the time, or do you call musicians and vocalists as needed?

My answer who change depending on the nature of the power relationships in the band.

The ideal situation, in my view, is for a band leader to make the final decisions. With input from the group. In my jazz groups, I gave everyone the table of contents of the Real Books, and asked everyone to suggest tunes from those books. I gave criteria -- the songs had to have simple song structure and preferably, were one page. The reason for this was to make it easy to sub players and get them music (something I detest doing as it uses toner, means file handling, scanning and lots of drudgerous computer tasks).

They came out with all kinds of songs. Many I would have chosen myself, along with new ones I didn't know -- and that I actually liked a lot. i did throw in a couple I disagreed with if certain members suggested all "turkeys" (so they felt included and heard), but the good news was that after we put them in the set list, that very person said to take them out because they sucked.

That worked really well for me. For this to work, the power relationships need to be in your own favor. I also think it helps if people come into the band knowing beforehand that this is the process for selecting tunes. Otherwise, some might come in and take over, or fight the method you are using. Knowing this is the process before they accept the commitment keeps you in the drivers seat.

Remember, you gotta have songs that are easily subbed for those times when musicians or vocalists are not available. So, allowing a lot of weird songs only one vocalist can sing, or songs that depend on someone's unique abilities end up gutting your repertoire if that person is sick, quits, or is not available.

 

[garp]

I'm all for democracy, but I do believe that a band has to have a bandleader. Whether that's the person who does the bookings and/or hauls the PA and/or handles financial matters and/or [insert your criteria here], lack of leadership ultimately descends into chaos. As PauFerro noted, it's highly dependent upon your band's culture, but at some point, everyone in the band benefits if one member is responsible for/saddled with the responsibility of disseminating setlists. Sounds like you might be the most level-headed member!

 

[john_g]

I talked to the singers and they agree we should have

For this to work, the power relationships need to be in your own favor. I also think it helps if people come into the band knowing beforehand that this is the process for selecting tunes. Otherwise, some might come in and take over, or fight the method you are using. Knowing this is the process before they accept the commitment keeps you in the drivers seat.

I agree. What happened before is it was a bit of a free-for-all and the singer of that band made most of the decisions "based on what she could sing" (usually what SHE wanted to do). I talked to the singers and they basically said we will follow your lead...didnt expect them to say that but thats cool. So I think I will try to put together a full setlist and ask the others for input but still be in control. Do it from the get-go so everyone knows what to expect.

 

[Goatrope]

Democracy is not always a good thing. I rather have one decision maker.

Our 3-piece is a bit odd, but our bandleader/singer/guitarist either starts a song or calls it immediately as the prior song ends. We have a repertoire of about 150 songs from which he can pick.

Fortunately we're all good listeners, and have our poopie together, so the sets run pretty well. We kinda have a routine of which songs follow which, and will alter the order/content to fit the venue, or how people are receiving the show.

Last week we played a one-off party where we were one of three bands, so the BL solicited input on a condensed one hour set. This time, I actually picked the songs, but the order was still called by the BL.

Context: This is a classic rock covers and originals band. Middle-aged guys. We're all fully employed outside of the band, and I travel quite a bit for work, so we don't see each other except at gigs.

 

[Bass Viking]

95% of the songs were not good choices for bars and clubs we played (lots of modest hits from the 70s and 80s that, even though we played well, were not songs most people were clamoring to hear).

I'm curious, what sorts of songs were on your set list?

 

[MrLenny1]

IME usually the singer/singers.

 

[bigboy_78]

I play with a few bands that have rubbish set-list. Not my band, not my concern. Pay me and I’ll play anything.

From experience never let singers or guitarist choose tunes if you want people to dance. Singers will choose Adele-esque dirges with shouty vocals. Guitarists will choose masturbatory guitar songs.

In the only band where I give input, we made it clear what the “vibe” of the band should be at the start and all setlist choices need to stick to that concept. .

1. Was it popular – if not a chart topper, we don’t play
   
   
2. Is it “classic rock” – we sell ourselves as “not a classic rock band”
   
   
3. Can you dance to it – no listening music, only feet on the floor
   
   
4. Did it clear the floor last time – one more chance or it’s gone.
   
   
5. Can we actually play it well – if we don’t have a solid handle on it after 3 or 4 runs, we shelve it.

Other than that everyone's suggestions end up on the lists.

 

[PauFerro]

I play with a few bands that have rubbish set-list. Not my band, not my concern. Pay me and I’ll play anything.

From experience never let singers or guitarist choose tunes if you want people to dance. Singers will choose Adele-esque dirges with shouty vocals. Guitarists will choose masturbatory guitar songs.

In the only band where I give input, we made it clear what the “vibe” of the band should be at the start and all setlist choices need to stick to that concept. .

1. Was it popular – if not a chart topper, we don’t play
   
   
2. Is it “classic rock” – we sell ourselves as “not a classic rock band”
   
   
3. Can you dance to it – no listening music, only feet on the floor
   
   
4. Did it clear the floor last time – one more chance or it’s gone.
   
   
5. Can we actually play it well – if we don’t have a solid handle on it after 3 or 4 runs, we shelve it.

Other than that everyone's suggestions end up on the lists.

I like this criteria, a lot. Although I am not sure what you mean by a 'masturbatory" song. What makes a song "masturbatory"?

 

[RichardW]

I play in a five-piece cover band and three of us (me and the two guitarists) generally handle song selection and set list construction. That said, one of the guitarists is our de facto band leader--like the Pope, he's the first among equals. You must have a final arbiter who can make decisions and with whom the rest of the band is comfortable with those decisions. We have a lot of discussion about songs, but after having played together for seven years, we are all pretty well aligned in terms of our tastes and our goals, so making final decisions has not proven difficult or contentious. And let's face it: we aren't curing cancer here--we're just five guys who love to play music. There's nothing worth fighting over.

As others have noted, though, it's really about the culture of your band and the mix of personalities. I'm fortunate in that our band has zero drama.

 

[Korladis]

In one of my bands where there's an actual leader, he decides what the set lists are.

In another of my bands, we all mutually agree on the set lists.

 

[two fingers]

Your audience ultimately makes that decision.....whether bands know it or not.

 

[john_g]

I'm curious, what sorts of songs were on your set list?

Your audience ultimately makes that decision.....whether bands know it or not.

Absolutely, and the kicker there is a song can kill at one place and fall flat somewhere else. Usually everyone would suggest songs and then if the singer(s) can do it, then it would get added. I like big boy 78's criteria (except we do play classic rock stuff too) and that may be the ticket in this case...I think I am going to put together a setlist so everyone can review and propose some criteria for input.

 

[mikeyjm2]

The way we've been doing it in the cover band I'm in would likely seem chaotic to someone outside the band. In the context of a different band dynamic this probably wouldn't work but in my situation we've all become really close friends and there are no egos run amok. Now that we have our core 60-ish or so song list of things we have down, new material ideas are just thrown out there by any band member. We write them down on a whiteboard (and more formally in a tab of a spreadsheet) and at the rate of 1 or 2 new ones a week we try them out together. Sometimes a new one will click and get added to our regular list and sometimes not. Somehow this works for us, and even though our lead guitarist is what I would consider to be the BL, the new song process is done pretty democratically with no one person having a controlling vote.

 

[Toddbass65]

My advice would be whoever books the gigs should have final say on a set list, with input from the band.
One of the 2 bands I'm in has always let the singer pick the setlist (what he can sing).
Problem is, he wants to do what HE wants and it has led to almost no gigs.
The other band I'm in I have been coming up with the setlist with input from the band,
based on the fact that I do the booking and have discussed with the club what they like and goes over at their club.
The band gets lots of booking requests, while the singer choosing band gets almost none.
Easy to see why - play what the club knows will go over - get asked back.
Play stuff the singer likes and nobody knows - have a nice day - we will be in touch if we need you again (aka...never).
Just makes sense.
But I do think the band should have some input, as it is a team effort and everyone should have a connection to it in some way
to keep everyone as happy as possible. I play a few songs I hate, but the songs go over well and our guitarist likes them.
So, I smile and play away. Life is good .

 

[brianrost]

If it's leader + sidemen, the BL has full control over the list. For cooperative bands I've been in, it's varied from band to band but here's a few things that have worked over the years:

1. in a top 40 band, we would work up new tunes (based off the old Casey's Top 40 radio show every week) to stay current and added them into the first set until they were fully polished and then moved them into other sets later where they might fit better. If we learned a song while it was climbing the charts but stiffed before hitting the top 10 we would drop it immediately. The vocalists (2 female, 2 male) had veto power over tunes that they couldn't handle after trying key changes, etc.

2. in a "anything goes" bar band residency we rehearsed every Monday and tried to learn 3 songs a week. After 7 years we had over 300 songs. If it made it out of rehearsal in one piece, it was on the list and our setlists varied quite a lot from week to week since we had so much material.

3. my cousin had a C&W band in the 1970s mixing originals and covers. Anyone could suggest a song but if one member said no, the song was off the list. He told me this caused friction when the rest of the band really wanted to do a song and one guy didn't. Still, they toured for well over a decade before they folded.

 

[john_g]

My advice would be whoever books the gigs should have final say on a set list, with input from the band.
One of the 2 bands I'm in has always let the singer pick the setlist (what he can sing).
Problem is, he wants to do what HE wants and it has led to almost no gigs.
The other band I'm in I have been coming up with the setlist with input from the band,
based on the fact that I do the booking and have discussed with the club what they like and goes over at their club.
The band gets lots of booking requests, while the singer choosing band gets almost none.
Easy to see why - play what the club knows will go over - get asked back.
Play stuff the singer likes and nobody knows - have a nice day - we will be in touch if we need you again (aka...never).
Just makes sense.
But I do think the band should have some input, as it is a team effort and everyone should have a connection to it in some way
to keep everyone as happy as possible. I play a few songs I hate, but the songs go over well and our guitarist likes them.
So, I smile and play away. Life is good .

I definitely want input, and most of these songs are not songs I would listen to or even like. And another thing that was a problem in my last two bands, we didnt adjust the setlist well either. Songs that didnt work werent replaced. It was almost like they didnt want to bother learning new stuff.

 

[john_g]

If it's leader + sidemen, the BL has full control over the list. For cooperative bands I've been in, it's varied from band to band but here's a few things that have worked over the years:
...my cousin had a C&W band in the 1970s mixing originals and covers. Anyone could suggest a song but if one member said no, the song was off the list. He told me this caused friction when the rest of the band really wanted to do a song and one guy didn't. Still, they toured for well over a decade before they folded.

Thats how it was in my last band...if one person said no, it was out. It got frustrating real quick. In the last 6 months of that band I pushed to get a bunch of new songs added and we "learned them", but you could tell the others werent into it so they played them so bad we had to drop them. Then they would be like "oh, Im just not into those songs". ? I wasnt into most of the songs on our setlist but I still showed up and played them well.

 

[Korladis]

Thats how it was in my last band...if one person said no, it was out. It got frustrating real quick. In the last 6 months of that band I pushed to get a bunch of new songs added and we "learned them", but you could tell the others werent into it so they played them so bad we had to drop them. Then they would be like "oh, Im just not into those songs". ? I wasnt into most of the songs on our setlist but I still showed up and played them well.

Well, yeah, that's kinda one of the downsides of cover bands. On the other hand, you get paid more.

There are always trade-offs.

 

[theduke1]

My band has only one rule
Can we take a cover tune and have it sound good.
We will try any song anyone suggests