Who REALLY makes your bass?

[ThaCoast]

As of the last 5 years, who makes my bass is myself. I've built more basses than i'd previously owned made by some company. There's still the odd copy i find from time to time & mod, but i end up selling them afterwards. Of all my basses (17 of them), I've 6 or less that are factory built. Though i've modded a few of the factory from stock to my own, the rest is DIY from the ground up by me.

 

[SteveHeissner]

An Indonesian factory worker I've never met.

 

[bholder]

An Indonesian factory worker I've never met.

I've got a bunch of those, too. And honestly, the quality on the newer ones is really quite impressive.

 

[MobileHolmes]

On some level, this gets into weird philosophical questions about what a brand is. I've heard claims Gibson sometimes subs out some high level endorser guitars to individual luthiers in their own shops. Is that still a Gibson? Is that different than Fender bringing in individual high end luthiers to work in their custom shop on site? For that matter, Gibson and Fender have been sold multiple times, and are no longer in the same plants or using the same tooling, and most of the original employees are long dead (except Abigail Ybarra). Are they still the same company? Heck, apple doesn't make any part of your phone except the OS. I don't have any answers, but what constitutes a brand and a company is actually pretty messy in practice.

I've watched this video in the past and have re watched some of it today. For the most part, I don't really see any real issue here, except maybe in terms of parts and country of origin (as in, I want to buy American but some chunk of this guitar is foreign, or I am boycotting Country X but how do I know where various parts of my guitar come from?). Beyond that I really don't know why it matters that Ibanez or Epiphone or whoever don't actually own the factories that make the guitars. Also, his evidence is pretty flimsy in spots (I bet D'addario makes Hartke strings)

 

[fhm555]

Yeah. I recently read an excellent op-ed essay that asked an intriguing question about what type of person you are.

The question was:

“Would you rather be informed - or outraged?”​

I’m guessing most people would say the former but still prefer the latter. Righteous indignation has become our new national pastime.

Sic transit gloria mundi.

I know it’s awful to do so but in my mind i think of us as being in an era of hyphenated American outrage. Strictly one guys opinion but it’s virtually impossible to just be an American anymore. You must be a subcategory of American and you must be outraged at anything failing to affirm you anger at whatever your particular subcategory “issue” is angry about.
But you have to admit, it’s so much less work to be outraged than informed. Just sayin.

 

[Charlzm]

This was posted in another thread here but thought it deserved its own. Very informative video that had me thinking and just reinforcing my belief that you are mostly paying for the name on the headstock. Some of you may know this but there are a lot here who don't. Thoughts?

Let's see...

I have a 2000/2001 Fender that says it was "Made in Japan", so I'm guessing that Fender had a factory in Japan back then.
I have a 4003 Rickenbacker that was made in the USA in Santa Ana, as far as I know.
I have a German-made Warwick Katana that I am hoping was made at the Warwick shop in Germany.
I have a Dingwall Afterburner that was made in Canada at the Dingwall factory.
I have a Dingwall Combustion that was made in China at some unknown contract facility before going back to Canada for a final once-over.
I have a Warmoth parts bass that was made in North Hollywood and Sylmar from parts made in the USA in Washington state.

I'm pretty clear on all of that except for the identity of the Chinese Dingwall factory.

 

[Jeff Scott]

Is that Jazzy's bass he's working on? [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

He would have a better idea. I made that photograph on May 11, 2007.

 

[Frank77]

I don't see how any of this matters. Different customers will have different specs, and whoever is making the parts for the "big name" companies will have to adjust their manufacturing process to meet these specs, or they'll lose business. The level of QC applied to a bridge on an order for a generic no-name brand will be different than one part of an order for the Fenders and Gibsons of this world.

In other words: "Meh."

Also: This guys' spelling skills (or lack thereof) are killing me.

 

[FollowMeDown]

Let's see...
...I have a German-made Warwick Katana that I am hoping was made at the Warwick shop in Germany....

You can easily find out everything about it. Just type your serial number in here:
Invalid Link Removed

 

[mbell75]

I don't see how any of this matters. Different customers will have different specs, and whoever is making the parts for the "big name" companies will have to adjust their manufacturing process to meet these specs, or they'll lose business. The level of QC applied to a bridge on an order for a generic no-name brand will be different than one part of an order for the Fenders and Gibsons of this world.

In other words: "Meh."

You REALLY think the Indonesian lady on an assembly line is thinking “oh wow, here comes a bridge for a Fender! Let me take extra special care of this one, who cares about those Ibanez bridges” lol

 

[Frank77]

You REALLY think the Indonesian lady on an assembly line is thinking “oh wow, here comes a bridge for a Fender! Let me take extra special care of this one, who cares about those Ibanez bridges” lol

No, but her supervisor does and so does the QC guy. Her work will be rejected if it doesn't meet the specs. That's why there can be crappy stuff coming out of (insert country name here), as well as high end stuff. Sometimes from the same plant.

 

[Yellow Bang66]

I know exactly who built three of my four basses (I've met the builders).

For production instruments, the only thing that matters is the quality of the resulting instrument. Name on the headstock, factory, country of origin - often interchangeable. You either like the instrument for the given price or you don't. The rest doesn't mean much these days.

I just had a thought, I wonder if this is what happened to gibsons quality? it got outsourced>,Outsourced>>, & outsourced>>> again, so far down the line it got lost by the OEM, caught in a digenerating game of Who's QCing who? A preceived MIA bass/guitar made in indonesia, with cheap chinese parts. to get the price down( for a bigger profit margin). So if you care, you got to do your homework (& get your hands on it)! If you don't beware! I guess thats always been the problem with ordering online.You won't know until it's too late! it may spell trouble for the whole industry. Gibson was just the first to get caught! "how cheap/fast can you make this product for us?" Ie: Now, "Chibson factories" can almost make an identical guitar for a fraction of the cost! and you don't know until it's in your hands!! like when Firestone put cheap/dangerous tires on New American cars & they started to blow up at high speeds. I don't think any company would ever admit to doing it, unless indicted by congress. So we as the consumers must "vote" with our wallets or boycott the brand! Gibson now suffers from that backlash. (we spent thousands+ on what we thought was "American Quality", but what we actually bought into was "Corporate/American Greed!" Gibson is now known as CHEAP, not worth it & a Brand to be wary of! (a fake american brand!) "You"ve been Warned". luckily, no was ever killed by a broken headstock, I hope. but,
Now Gibson is stuck covered in their own SH*t & has a lot of cleaning up of their image to do, or what's left of it. but, it Looks like Dean will end up paying for it, tho.
Unfortunately, Because of this corporate practice We as consumers have to be more diligent when spending our hard earned money. Now, They're sneaking in "cheap"/chinese pot metal parts into their products hoping we don't care or won't notice! Gibson's greed took all the fun out of playing and gassing! for me.

 

[wintremute]

You REALLY think the Indonesian lady on an assembly line is thinking “oh wow, here comes a bridge for a Fender! Let me take extra special care of this one, who cares about those Ibanez bridges” lol

I think you're still applying your "cookie cutter" false premise to this situation. You make it sound like all the same bridges are coming down the assembly line, and just a different name is put on them.

 

[wintremute]

Let me pose that question right back to you. Why does a US made Fender cost $2k while the same Chinese made Squier cost $200? Its made in a plant with machines right? How much difference does it make where the plant is, who owns the plant, or what people are operating the machines right? Its mainly machines making the instruments right? As long as they come out the way they're supposed to, why would it matter?

Your question has a false premise. How are the two basses "the same"?

I already owned an Ibanez when I found out that they didn't own their own factories. I didn't think I was deceived. I thought it was interesting. Then I bought more Ibanezes, because they're what I like and the value for the price is very good (for me).

 

[Bassamatic]

You have to understand how the large OEM factories work. I deal mostly with electronics, but it is the same thing. These are super quality, very established factories that build products to ORDER. YOU provide the detailed specifications. You are not buying their product and putting your name on it - you are having an EXPERT vendor make your product for you, exactly the way you want it. And, since they do this in such large quantities, they are likely better at it than you are and get better costs on parts and materials.

So, for instance if an Ibanez and a Fender were made in the same factory, that in now way means that they are going to even similar to each other in any way. It is because of these great OEMs, willing to invest in the latest technologies, that we are able to get such GREAT deals on well-made, well-performing instruments.

 

[ajkula66]

Gibson is now known as CHEAP, not worth it & a Brand to be wary of! (a fake american brand!)

OK so Gibson is a fake American brand because it buys tuning machines from Grover which moved their production to China ? That's an interesting argument, especially given the fact that they also source parts from American companies such as Hipshot and Babicz. Not to mention that they maintain actual production facilities in the U.S. and still employ American labour in both TN and MT.

Anyone buying a fairly recent tube/valve amp will find out that the tubes in that amp were made in either China, Russia, Czech Republic or Slovak Republic. That's it. Does that make Mesa Boogie less American or Marshall less British?

Whether we like it or not, certain things are simply not made in the USA, UK, Canada or Germany anymore. There are no production facilities for them, and the demand obviously isn't high enough for anyone to invest in building new ones.

Not to mention that this stuff is really not news for anyone who has been paying attention for the past three decades or so...

 

[petrus61]

I've realized that I'm no longer part of YT's demographic. The stuff on there seems increasingly simplistic. Basic information is presented as groundbreaking news. That's not necessarily a bad thing. If I want annoying personalities over substance, however, I can just watch network tv.

According to the algorithms, “substance” is secondary.

I think you're still applying your "cookie cutter" false premise to this situation. You make it sound like all the same bridges are coming down the assembly line, and just a different name is put on them.

Which defeats the entire purpose of an assembly line.

 

[phillipkregg]

Sigh.
No one is lying to you when a pickup says 'Duncan Designed'. It is exactly what it says it is- a pickup designed by Seymour Duncan, but not made in the USA. No one is trying to fool you. Most guitars are made to a price point- you can't buy a new $500 non-USA instrument that will come with regular Seymour Duncan USA pickups. Do your research, but companies know better than to deceive their customers. They won't last long in this era.

That's what I didn't understand about the "OEM lie" portion of the video...

It obviously says "Duncan Designed" for a reason and any moderately educated consumer can find out really quickly that they aren't the usual Seymour Duncans.

CND - or Carey Nordstrand Design - used on Ibanez basses, are obviously not the standard Nordstrand Pickups, even though they are good pickups.

I don't know of any manufacturer who puts the same wording and labeling on lesser quality components than they do their flagship parts. There's usually some variation and an easy to find explanation from either the guitar company or the manufacturer of the part.

Now what did strike me as interesting is that he claimed Grover actually outsources cheaper tuners and puts "Grover" on the tuner with no other indication that Grover did not actually make the tuner. I don't have a bass with "Real Grover" and another with "Fake Grover" tuners to compare though.

 

[phillipkregg]

Seems it's always a letdown for people to learn that Ibanez isn't per se a manufacturer, but only a brand name owned by the Hoshino corporation, and doesn't operate any dedicated plants.

Who is the manufacturer who makes their Japanese line?

 

[el_Bajo_Verde]

I just don't want a sweatshop/child labor bass. That's all...