• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Who's Next bass tone

Clemouze

Clemouze

Sep 1, 2016
620
553
Paris - France
m.youtube.com
#1
Salut all

I don't like it.. AT ALL for the Who
just full low mid and bass , like how I imagine a standard annoying rock bass tone.
COME ONE , on the bonus of this album, we got some Young Vic recordings and the tone is better to my taste. And I am not talking about the live versions on these bonuses ..! Super perfect Ox live tone.


So what happens for the recording ?
I read somewhere Entwistle wanted to go away from "full treble tone " but it is pretty radical !
Do you have ideas why ?
Also which bass was used ? His Franken precision or already his Fenferbird ?

By the way still one of my 3 fav album of all time.
And the Ox IS my fav bass player
 
#3
He always have opted for a more laid-back tone (which He didn't all that enjoy either) in the studio. In Who's Next case, could be overdubbing (not sure), masked by piano/synth/acoustic guitar, or just His (then stock) Thunderbird was a bit darker than His Frankenstein P bass. Sounds like He was playing fingerstyle too. And I actually quite like the first a few notes of Getting In Tune. :D
 
  • Like
Reactions: dmt and Clemouze
#5
dmt said:
The whole album sounds radically different from their previous records - like a whole new band. Glyn Johns is said to have been responsible. Personally, I think it sounds great!
Click to expand...

This.

Who's Next was their 5th studio album and was released in 1971. Critics had been complaining of "thin" sounds on the first 4 records and fattening up the tone was made a priority for this one.

Listening to this album you can hear a lot more low end on the guitars, keys, and drums. Unfortunately, this encroaches on the territory of Entwistle's bass and his tone sounds thinner compared to the rest of the instruments.

Context is important. In 1971, the electric bass was a low priority in the mix, especially with heavy rock and roll. As long as you could hear it, that was acceptable.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Iristone, dmt and Clemouze
#6
hbarcat said:
This.

Who's Next was their 5th studio album and was released in 1971. Critics had been complaining of "thin" sounds on the first 4 records and fattening up the tone was made a priority for this one.

Listening to this album you can hear a lot more low end on the guitars, keys, and drums. Unfortunately, this encroaches on the territory of Entwistle's bass and his tone sounds thinner compared to the rest of the instruments.

Context is important. In 1971, the electric bass was a low priority in the mix, especially with heavy rock and roll. As long as you could hear it, that was acceptable.
Click to expand...
Keith Moon said of the drums on Tommy, something to the effect of, "It sounds like I was banging on biscuit tins!", lol. Too bad, too, as Tommy with the recording quality of Who’s Next or Quadrophenia would have been even more amazing. Another unfavorable comparison recording quality-wise is to contrast it to the Beatles’ Abbey Road released the same year, or Hendrix’s Electric Ladyland released the year before.

Their earlier stuff is easier to forgive the sound quality of since...that was the general recording quality of the time. But by Tommy, the state of the art had clearly advanced beyond what they were capturing. Oh well, an opportunity forever lost, but it’s hard to complain too much considering we did get Tommy :bassist:
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: The Owl, Clemouze and Iristone
#7
To be fair I always think of Keith's tone as "biscuit tin" - compared to the later close-mic'd Kenney and Zak's - and much, MUCH better than either (not to mention the playing, Kenney ok, Zak I'm not a fan). It works in a melodic way, being supported by (NOT supporting, like most modern records) John's similarly melodic basslines.
Only works though for one of the greatest rhythm section ever, who happens to drink, party, blow up toilets together. There's a certain empathy between them that makes it work. I wouldn't play bi-amp along with a random biscuit tin basher or vice versa. :roflmao:
 
  • Like
Reactions: dmt
#9
Clemouze said:
Thank you all for all these infos !

I must admit my favorite Who's album mix is .. LIVE AT LEEDS

Super bass attack !

Just 1 year before Who's Next and 1 after Tommy. The GRAAL ! THAT BASS TONE !!
Click to expand...

If anyone's interested, I sometimes play with the Tech21 Leeds pedal, which is designed to emulate the Hiwatt amp, and IMO, it gets remarkably close to Entwistle's bass sound on "Live at Leeds".

At the risk of getting flamed, I'm not a fan of the vast majority of Who music ("Tommy" bores me to tears), but will readily admit that "Who's Next" is in my top 10 albums of all time list.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Clemouze
#10
hbarcat said:
If anyone's interested, I sometimes play with the Tech21 Leeds pedal, which is designed to emulate the Hiwatt amp, and IMO, it gets remarkably close to Entwistle's bass sound on "Live at Leeds".

At the risk of getting flamed, I'm not a fan of the vast majority of Who music ("Tommy" bores me to tears), but will readily admit that "Who's Next" is in my top 10 albums of all time list.
Click to expand...

I had troubles with my Leeds ! Do you play with precision pickup style ?
( I eventually ended with the Tech 21 YYZ )
 
  • Like
Reactions: hbarcat
#11
Clemouze said:
I had troubles with my Leeds ! Do you play with precision pickup style ?
( I eventually ended with the Tech 21 YYZ )
Click to expand...

Bass 1) EMG Jazz set (active)
Bass 2) EMG Geezer PJ (passive)

I've found I need to solo the J pickup (bridge position) to get closest to the Entwistle sound. The P sound is too flabby.

I've been wanting to get the YYZ pedal but trying to free up some funds first. What do you think of the YYZ?
 
#12
hbarcat said:
Bass 1) EMG Jazz set (active)
Bass 2) EMG Geezer PJ (passive)

I've found I need to solo the J pickup (bridge position) to get closest to the Entwistle sound. The P sound is too flabby.

I've been wanting to get the YYZ pedal but trying to free up some funds first. What do you think of the YYZ?
Click to expand...
hbarcat said:
Bass 1) EMG Jazz set (active)
Bass 2) EMG Geezer PJ (passive)

I've found I need to solo the J pickup (bridge position) to get closest to the Entwistle sound. The P sound is too flabby.

I've been wanting to get the YYZ pedal but trying to free up some funds first. What do you think of the YYZ?
Click to expand...

I really like it !
I use it in parallel of a clean signal and a Behringer BDI-21 signal. ( subtle tone bonus to my core tone )

I find it more usable than the Leeds that was on the same spot before. Less harsh treble, more usable lows ( I found leeds was either thin or boomy ) , and works better with all my basses ( Rick, P , J , stingray , etc )

You can hear how it sounds with my rick on this live of my band :
( on some songs like the first one I also add a drive pedal to let the YYZ crunches more )



Tomorrow I can record some samples with my P bass ( with EMG P )
It sounds really really nice with it !
 
  • Like
Reactions: hbarcat
#13
I think a large part of John's Leeds tone was in his bi-amp setup. The lows stay clean while the tops become overdriven. I can do a passable imitation with my Vox/Ampeg bi-amp rig:
1D97273C-6EC2-48C7-B45D-B1E6CFB6CAA3.jpeg
Obviously this is more "inspired by" rather than "dead-on", but good enough for noodling about and trying to learn Summertime Blues as good as I can. :p
 
  • Like
Reactions: dmt, MYLOWFREQ, Clemouze and 1 other person
#14
hbarcat said:
Bass 1) EMG Jazz set (active)
Bass 2) EMG Geezer PJ (passive)

I've found I need to solo the J pickup (bridge position) to get closest to the Entwistle sound. The P sound is too flabby.

I've been wanting to get the YYZ pedal but trying to free up some funds first. What do you think of the YYZ?
Click to expand...

I tried some entwistle like impro. Not enough treble and too much bass to really try coppying the tone :
We can hear the YYZ in clip 2 and 3

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

First clip : (Clean + BDI-21)
Second clip : (Clean + BDI-21) into LS-2 ( dry + YYZ )
Third clip : (Clean + BDI-21 + Tube Screamer ) into LS-2 ( dry + YYZ )

EQ setting on YYZ is : bass noon, treble noon, mid 1 o'clock. Drive 10 o'clock. Mix 2 o'clock . But don't forget it is combined with a dry signal from the LS-2

Precision Bass with EMG-P Pickup

Recorded into Gallien Krueger MB-500 with Mooer RADAR cab sim ( using my own Gallien Krueger NEO 410 impulse response
 
  • Like
Reactions: hbarcat
#16
dougjwray said:
It's funny-- I really don't like his "Live at Leeds" sound, and his "Who's Next" sound might be my all-time favorite "rounds on a Precision" (unless it's a Thunderbird) sound, by anyone.
Click to expand...

I am pretty sure that Entwistle used both the T-Bird and the P on “Who’s Next.” Sorry to add to your angst.
 
  • Like
Reactions: sc_precision, Iristone, MYLOWFREQ and 1 other person
#19
My ears tell me it was a T-Bird. So do the circumstances I wonder if maybe you are both right about this. The recording of what started as the Lifehouse project and became Who's Next took place over multiple sessions in 3 different studios in two different countries in March, April, May and June of 1971. JE usually recorded with whatever basses he was using live, and there's no doubt that he had switched to the T-Bird for live work before "Who's Next" was finished. There a lots of pics of him using a T-Bird in February and March of 1971 at the Young Vic shows."Behind Blue Eyes" was one of the last songs recorded, in May or June of 1971. The history suggests what my ears tell me. It was a T-Bird.
 
  • Like
Reactions: dmt and Clemouze
#20
Early on he played a lot with picks. A lot of Tommy sure sounds like pick to me. He later went on with fingers to develop his signature triplets and typewriting style. And a Thunderbird sounds mellower played with fingers. His playing also became more sub-melodic (if that's even a word) by then.
 

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back