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Who's responsibility is the PA?

#21
My whole band owns the PA. It started out each of us owning seperate items, but recently we reached enough money in our band account to do a MAJOR upgrade to it (4 new JBL SRX dual 18" cabs, 4 new JBL SRX dual 15"/ horn cabs, Shure in-ear monitors, QSC PLX power amps, etc). So, now I guess that we each have an equal amount invested. I don't know what will happen come breakup time, but if someone quits, the band agrees to buy his share out.

A lot of the bars that we play at do not have any PA, and we also do a lot of outdoor gigs (street dances, etc.), so we need a large PA. We always run everything through the PA, so it can't be just the singer's responsibility in our case. And I have seen too many decent bands that no one will give a second chance to just because they were playing through a PA that sounded like total poop. A good PA with a good soundman goes a long way, IMHO.
 
#22
Ryan Lunneborg said:
My whole band owns the PA. It started out each of us owning seperate items, but recently we reached enough money in our band account to do a MAJOR upgrade to it (4 new JBL SRX dual 18" cabs, 4 new JBL SRX dual 15"/ horn cabs, Shure in-ear monitors, QSC PLX power amps, etc). So, now I guess that we each have an equal amount invested. I don't know what will happen come breakup time, but if someone quits, the band agrees to buy his share out.


What kind of board and how many chanels is it?


A lot of the bars that we play at do not have any PA, and we also do a lot of outdoor gigs (street dances, etc.), so we need a large PA. We always run everything through the PA, so it can't be just the singer's responsibility in our case. And I have seen too many decent bands that no one will give a second chance to just because they were playing through a PA that sounded like total poop. A good PA with a good soundman goes a long way, IMHO.
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Thats a problem down here. Only one club, (Burboun St.) provides a sound systym for bands. Its pretty sad too, because like you stated, Ive seen quite a few good bands in clubs that sounded sub-par because there was inadaquate or no pa systym at all for the gig.
 
#23
The PA is the band's responsibility.

Making the singer responsible for it is somewhat short sighted. In my band, we have three vocalists, bass and keyboard runs through the PA on most gigs, and on larger gigs the drums and guitar get mic'd up. We ALL use the PA. Having a PA will help a band get gigs, and set prices for performance. Plus having a PA will allow you to rent it out, or run sound for other bands for some extra income.

There's a number of ways to do deal with the PA. Some of which has already been stated. I've done all of them and they work out well.

1) Use the band kitty to pay for the PA. If the band dissolves, member(s) can either buy out the PA, or it can be sold and the proceeds split among band members.

2) Each band member owns pieces of the PA. To make this work, band members need to be responsible for the "non glamorous" stuff like cables, ties, etc. as well as fun stuff like mixers and speakers. If the band breaks up, each member keeps what they own to do as they wish. The difficult thing here is equity. One guys owns top of the line EAW speakers, while another buys a crappy radio shack mixer. Or one guy only owns cables, and nothing else.

3) The band leader is responsible for the PA. If the band follows the band leader model, then the band leader should be responsible. For example, if the band leader is a guitar player who uses various musicians for gigs, it makes sense for him to own the PA. Or if the guy is the "core" of the band, then he/she needs to own a PA so they don't have to rely on other musicians to keep his/her band properly equipped.
 
#24
cassanova said:
[/b]

Thats a problem down here. Only one club, (Burboun St.) provides a sound systym for bands. Its pretty sad too, because like you stated, Ive seen quite a few good bands in clubs that sounded sub-par because there was inadaquate or no pa systym at all for the gig.
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We have an Allen & Heath 24 channel board.
 
#27
vegaas said:
I never understood why the singer isnt responsible for the PA. Everyone else in the band has spent money on equipment, why not the singer?
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But why should the singer in my band have to spend $20,000+ on a PA that the whole band uses?? I understand where you are coming from, but this does not work for all bands. Each member of my band has a lot of money invested in personal gear (guitars/basses, drums, amps, etc.), but nowhere near what we have invested in PA.
 
#28
The guy that owns the PA is the guy with all the POWER. It's real easy to fire someone that doesn't have something you need. But no band is gonna fire the member that owns the PA. Also, when a band is looking for a new member and they hear the candidate say that they have PA.......the band gets real interested real quick.

In my band the guitarist and I both have complete PA's.

Singers never buy PA. You're lucky if you find one that bought his own mic.

With that said, you can't get a decent PA for $3000.00. I have a small, decent PA and I've got over $15000.00 in it without subs. And I never buy from music stores, usually try to buy used. I'll be adding subs soon, an additional $4000.00.

My point is: Owning a PA is good. Owning a crappy PA is bad (and a terrible waste of money). It's better to own one nice piece of PA than a whole crappy PA. You probably have a pro sound and light company near you. Go meet the owner and start buying his used gear.
 
#29
joeybcdt said:
The guy that owns the PA is the guy with all the POWER. It's real easy to fire someone that doesn't have something you need. But no band is gonna fire the member that owns the PA. Also, when a band is looking for a new member and they hear the candidate say that they have PA.......the band gets real interested real quick.

In my band the guitarist and I both have complete PA's.

Singers never buy PA. You're lucky if you find one that bought his own mic.

With that said, you can't get a decent PA for $3000.00. I have a small, decent PA and I've got over $15000.00 in it without subs. And I never buy from music stores, usually try to buy used. I'll be adding subs soon, an additional $4000.00.

My point is: Owning a PA is good. Owning a crappy PA is bad (and a terrible waste of money). It's better to own one nice piece of PA than a whole crappy PA. You probably have a pro sound and light company near you. Go meet the owner and start buying his used gear.
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I agree. My band has well over $20,000 invested in PA, probably closer to 30k. We went the route of having a cheap PA that we couldn't get decent sound out of, and it just didn't work out for us.
 
#30
Guys ,

Who should buy the PA? Whoever wants the Power-Control and say so Buys the PA. All the ideas of splitting up the cost work well UNTIL the band splits then things get funny and somebody always gets screwed over. Don't be suprised when you nice & cozy verbal agreements you have now become a battle when the bands breaks up or someone quits. I bought my own PA Piece by Piece so I'm the Boss. If you're a serious musician you should have PA stuff and not just your instrument. It's a Band PA and not just the singers. Heck, I even own Drum mikes and I play Bass.

Barry :hyper: :bassist:
 
#32
Laserman said:
Guys ,

Who should buy the PA? Whoever wants the Power-Control and say so Buys the PA. All the ideas of splitting up the cost work well UNTIL the band splits then things get funny and somebody always gets screwed over. Don't be suprised when you nice & cozy verbal agreements you have now become a battle when the bands breaks up or someone quits. I bought my own PA Piece by Piece so I'm the Boss. If you're a serious musician you should have PA stuff and not just your instrument. It's a Band PA and not just the singers. Heck, I even own Drum mikes and I play Bass.

Barry :hyper: :bassist:
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I agree it's nice to own the whole thing to have complete say. But come on, how many of us lowly musicians can afford that. :crying:
 
#34
My band owns a small PA. A powered mixer and two (15 and a horn) cabs on stands. It's very portable and even a guitar player can get it up and running. :D We can use this for practice and 2 or 3 of the small gigs we do. Most of our gigs we rent sound. Its nice to not have to carry all of that stuff and then set it up. Sure we could probably save money in the long run but I enjoy not being the guy who would most likely run a larger system from the stage. Been there, done that. I walk in with my bass and my rig, set up in 2 minutes, and ready to rock. At the end of the night. Out the door in 5 mins. unless I stand around talking s**t.
That being said, I think I would like to ad a powered sub or two to our small PA.
 
#35
Jazzin' said:
the singer doesnt pay for your bass and your amp, why should you pay for his/her stuff?
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The following isn't directed at Jazzin particularly, just the camp that believes that "The singer should pay for the PA, since the musicians had to buy their own rigs"

So what if the bass player is also the lead singer? Do they have to buy double the equipment?

Or what if you have a drummer who sings? Do they have to load out both their drums and the PA?

Or how about a band where the guitar player, and bass player sing? Should they split the cost of the PA? How should it be split? Down the middle, or by percentage of songs sung?

Or what about background vocals? Should they pay the same amount as the lead vocalist towards the PA? Or should they pay less because they are background vocalists, not lead singers? Maybe band members should refuse to sing back-up vocals, otherwise they would be saddled with the expense of a PA.

What about a saxophonist? They aren't singers but they need to use the mic. Should they have to split the costs with the singer? What if the sax player is only a part time player, should he only pay part-time towards the PA? What if there is no vocalist, should the sax player have to pay for the PA?

Or how about an instrument that is only amplified by the PA like a violin? Should they pay for part of the PA even though they don't sing? Should they purchase a guitar amp and ruin their sound, so they don't have to pay into the PA? Or maybe they should split the costs with the singer, who splits it with the back-up singers according to the percentage used?

Or how about monitors? Since I need the monitors to hear the vocalist so I know my place in the song, should I have to pay in? If so how much compared to the singer? Should I pay less since I am using it for monitors, and not as front of house sound? Should band members forgo monitors since it's for the singer? Or should they skip the monitors since they didn't pay into it?

So if the singer owns the PA, do you want them to charge you $$ to run drums, bass, guitar, etc. in the PA? I know I wouldn't let someone sing through my bass amp. There are gigs out there where your rig, the guitarists rig, and the drums will not be loud enough and require PA support. And if you rent sound for the gig, should the singer have to pay for the rental?

The PA is not for "Lead Vocalists" only. It's for the band.
 
#37
joeybcdt said:
....you can't get a decent PA for $3000.00. I have a small, decent PA and I've got over $15000.00 in it without subs. And I never buy from music stores, usually try to buy used. I'll be adding subs soon, an additional $4000.00......
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Holy Toledo!!! Where are you playing, stadiums??? And $4000 for subs??? Even including a power amp, that's SERIOUS money.

IMHO for an average bar band, $3000 will buy a decent enough PA. A touring national act, sure, I can see $20K in a PA. But how many "club" bands can make enough money to justify a $20,000 PA???

Not meaning to put you down by any means, in fact I'm jealous since I've only got about $3500 in my PA. Evidently you're playing on a higher level than many of us.
 
#38
nashvillebill said:
Holy Toledo!!! Where are you playing, stadiums??? And $4000 for subs??? Even including a power amp, that's SERIOUS money.

IMHO for an average bar band, $3000 will buy a decent enough PA. A touring national act, sure, I can see $20K in a PA. But how many "club" bands can make enough money to justify a $20,000 PA???

Not meaning to put you down by any means, in fact I'm jealous since I've only got about $3500 in my PA. Evidently you're playing on a higher level than many of us.
Click to expand...

On a $3000.00 budget I'd suggest buying a decent monitor system. Or some of one. It can be used as mains on very small gigs.

It adds up quickly.
A&H Mixwiz 16X2 $1000.00
Yorkville EF508's used 1000.00 Retail $2400.00 discontinued.
QSC RMX1850HD 430.00
dbx Driverack 260 6XX.00

We're up to $3000.00 already. No mics, no stands, no cables, no effects,no monitors, no snake, no cases, no subs, ect, ect.

$4000.00 for subs? EAW FR250Z's at $900.00/each. Plus amps...QSC PLX 2402's. Two in the $900.00 range. Pretty close to $4000.00.

Sure I could buy Carvin or "B" stuff for less money. It's not what I consider "decent".

None of these expenses can be justified. My 10 guitars, 3 basses, and 8 amps can't be justified. We're musicians. You can't rationalize a musician.

Anything worth doing, is worth doing well.

BTW, touring bands don't have any PA. They rent.

Joey
 
#39
joeybcdt said:
...Sure I could buy Carvin or "B" stuff for less money. It's not what I consider "decent".

None of these expenses can be justified....
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I agree that you've got a great PA. But who is going to sink $20,000 into a PA without expecting to get their money back? Not me, though I could afford it if I wanted to.

My PA certainly isn't as good as yours, but it makes me money, the band I'm mixing for seems to like it (they keep calling me back).

Used 12 ch powered mixer: $800
Peavey Sp3G mains: $950
Pair JBL monitors: $360
Pair Yamaha monitors: $380
QSC RMX1850: $450
5 mics (Shure SM57/58's): $450
Cables, stands, etc: $500

No it's not a high-end rig, but it's good enough to play any small to medium club here in Nashville.
 
#40
Wow !

$20,000 PA system. I wonder how much I have in My PA. I got some Pieces off Ebay and saved some $. About half was bought brand new.

8 Channel Makie mixer $300
JBL Eon Mains $700
Carvin Monitor $400
Phonic Monitor $350
JBL Eon Subs $400
duel 15 Band Eq $200
Duel 31 Band Eq $300
Real Time Analyzer $300
3 ART Multi effects uunits $250
Digitech Muiltieffects $175
Peavy Multi effects $125
BBE stereo SONIC Maximyzer $250
Compressor $300
Mikes and stands $1000
TOTAL $5,050.00 If I added right, Long day today. Wow, $20,000 PA. Please list out what you have. Man in the Boat overboard!!! How much PA do you need?

Barry :crying: MY PA must stink
 

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