Why 70s Fenders Sucked

[roller]

So far it's been all "but 70s Fenders suck!" NB, I don't own a 70s Fender nor have I ever. Just not sure I understand this whole phenomena of hating an entire decade. Steely Dan's catalog, Iron Maiden's, and Pink FLoyd's were recorded using 70s Fenders.

What ^HE^ said!!!

Plus, Marcus Miller's main bass came out of the 70s too... and if there was something so horrible about that bass, I doubt he would've stuck with it.

I think half the "70s Fender hate" is generated by schmos who missed out on buying a killer 70s Fender and are trying to trick themselves into thinking it was garbage. Sour grapes!

 

[Mastermold]

Here's a great interview with Dan Smith who was hired away from Yamaha by Fender to turn the company around in the 80s. Fascinating reading where Smith describes all the reasons that 70s Fenders deservedly got their reputation for being lousy, why they went to Japan, how Fender was almost liquidated by CBS and more cool stuff.

No tort or flatwounds mentioned.

This quote from Dan is very interesting:

"I used to work in a music store in the late '50s all the way up to '64, from eighth grade on through high school. First of all, I used to help clean stuff up, and then I was a teacher. I used to unpack Fender guitars. We used to send stuff back. Some of 'em were great guitars and some of 'em weren't. The ones that everyone thinks so finely of are the ones that survived because they were good instruments."

I've suspected something like this for a long time, that because it's mostly the good ones that survived that's at least in part why we hold them in such high esteem.

 

[Censport]

Really enjoyed the interview. I was working for a store in Nashville in the 80's and heard things here and there from our rep, but didn't know anywhere near that much detail about what was going on until just now. Fifteen guitars out of 800?!? Incredible.

I've had several 70's Stratocasters. From '72-'79 models. The neck shapes were all over the place. Not just the profile but the thickness as well. Weights varied, but tended to be on the heavy side (tone beliefs at the time). Oh, and the necks moved when you played. Except for a '79 that someone had converted to 4-bolt. Of all the big-headstock, 3-bolt, CBS-era Strats I've had, the '84 MIJ Squier I got as a Christmas present that year is the one I've kept (Thanks Mom!). Still have it, still play it all the time. Sure, it's been refretted, and it's got a set of EMG Gilmours, but other than that, it's still the same guitar. They're running about $800-$1,000 now, so even the official Japanese "copies" are collectible. But the American originals are $1,500-$15,000 now, which blows my mind.

In the interview, Smith said during the same time (70's-80's) "Gibson was turning out [bleep]." I believe those are known as "the Norlin years". I had a couple of Les Pauls back then too. A '79 Deluxe with the "baby-buckers" and an '81 Gold Top. The Gold Top had a pretty good tone (I was playing through Marshalls back then), while the Deluxe had a good neck. I traded the Deluxe away in '87 and the Gold Top was stolen in '86. In '05, I bought a new Les Paul and it's far better than both of those old guitars combined.

It's amazing to me that so many people buy guitars and basses online now. When I started playing, the quality of instruments varied so much that even brand new ones had to be "test-driven" in person before a purchase would be considered. But I'm trying to keep up with the times. Bought a Spector Legend 5 on Reverb last month, and am very happy with it. Don't think I'll be buying any 70's Strats that way though...

 

[moonshinegtrs]

"Meet the new boss, same as the old Boss"...

There was a time when you couldn't give away a 1958 Flying V and a 59' Les Paul Sunburst was worth $300...

Maybe.


Moonshine

 

[Boneless]

The thing with Fenders is, they make so many, in all shapes and sizes, and they might not get all the details right but do the details count that much anyway, once you think that it's not a bad copy of a certain period bass/guitar, but a current-production Fender with a certain quantity of "looking at the past"? And the article is an interview to a very knowledgeable source, so what's the point of comments in the thread defending '70s era Fenders?

 

[ajkula66]

Steely Dan's catalog, Iron Maiden's, and Pink FLoyd's were recorded using 70s Fenders.

I don't know enough about Steely Dan's equipment, so I'll stay away from that aspect but both Pink Floyd and Iron Maiden were/are a chock-full of pre-CBS Fenders...

 

[TN WOODMAN]

Single biggest complaint I have is the weight. That Northern Ash is some dense heavy wood. Didn't notice so much in the 70s when I was young but at 58 I do.

 

[Dr. Cheese]

This quote from Dan is very interesting:

"I used to work in a music store in the late '50s all the way up to '64, from eighth grade on through high school. First of all, I used to help clean stuff up, and then I was a teacher. I used to unpack Fender guitars. We used to send stuff back. Some of 'em were great guitars and some of 'em weren't. The ones that everyone thinks so finely of are the ones that survived because they were good instruments."

I've suspected something like this for a long time, that because it's mostly the good ones that survived that's at least in part why we hold them in such high esteem.

That only makes sense. We need to remember that the founder was not a luthier, but a radio and amp person. I am sure a lot of stuff was learned on the fly at Fender.

 

[buldog5151bass]

The article is nothing new - in general, qc went to #_-&$@.

 

[natbers78]

Oh cool, this thread again.

 

[MobileHolmes]

Years ago I had a 77 J that was an awesome Bass, but it weighed something like 450 lbs.

I wound up swapping it straight up for a 78 P Bass and a Bassman 400 combo, both of which I still have.

I was in a shop with a decent vintage fender selection a while back, and they had a 77 or 78 J that had close the the best slap tone I've ever heard. I also nearly slipped a disc in my back getting it down.

 

[Acoop]

1975+ Fenders can be hit or miss, that I'll accept. But, painting the whole decade is a little harsh. ... I have a few early 70's Fenders that are better than anything reissue I could buy today. ... The 1975 Fender re-scructuring was not successful and led to Fender being purchased and revamped in the early 80's. ... But remember, Fender, today, sells more Chinese Fenders than US Fenders. ...

 

[fffreddy]

I guess I have the so called crappy 70's Fenders to thank for my 80's E-Series MIJ (transition?) P Bass. The cool thing about it is that it's 32" scale and very light (speaking about being 58 and slipping discs).

 

[5StringBlues]

Oddly, 1975 seems to be a good year for the P bass.


I've played a handful of them and each was lightweight and resonate with good tone.

 

[CZGunslinger]

Oddly, 1975 seems to be a good year for the P bass.


I've played a handful of them and each was lightweight and resonate with good tone.

I was just thinking the same thing about 1973.

 

[consectaneus]

This quote from Dan is very interesting:

"I used to work in a music store in the late '50s all the way up to '64, from eighth grade on through high school. First of all, I used to help clean stuff up, and then I was a teacher. I used to unpack Fender guitars. We used to send stuff back. Some of 'em were great guitars and some of 'em weren't. The ones that everyone thinks so finely of are the ones that survived because they were good instruments."

I've suspected something like this for a long time, that because it's mostly the good ones that survived that's at least in part why we hold them in such high esteem.

This also helps explain how he could recognize the good ones when he saw them at that shop. He spent the day measuring and buying perfect examples, but mentioned that proportions varied, and that one was like a '70s style body.

I remembered that story of Clapton going into a Nashville store and buying several old Stratocasters for cheap and putting Blackie together from the best parts.

The consistency now thanks to CNC machines wasn't possible when individual pieces were being hand cut with a band saw.

 

[ModuMan]

Great interview, thanks for sharing!

 

[FilTurd]

Exactly

Every era had hit or miss, and obviously some more than others, like the 70's. Had a 71 Jazz that was a dream in all respects. You never know till it's in your hands.

 

[higain617]

A lot of the blues lawyer types think all Norlin-era Gibsons are crap. This is patently untrue, and they have the inflated prices to prove it.

 

[wyleeboxer]

Just got this 1980ish Tokai on a trade this weekend, immediately upgraded pups to Dimarzio model p, cts pots, hipshot ultralite tuners, and what the hell a tortoise pickguard, this bass deserved it. I also have a 1980 Fender mia P bass I got from Tim Commerford (I won in a football bet from him) a nice players bass that has seen some miles on it but sounds good and was probably hand picked at one point..
The Dan Smith article I would say is dead on. My Fender has some pretty loose tolerances, neck pocket gaps, frets have been leveled a few times and I'm starting to get fret buzz again, feels more rustic chunky and less precision, although the hardware and electronics are a step up from the Tokai OE equipment which isn't bad either. However, the craftsmanship of the Tokai is much better then the Fender. The Tokai neck is flat no buzz and the bass feels as solid as they can get, playes beautifully and sounds balanced, punchy, and without any dead spots. Dan knew what was happening in Japan (my 1983 Yamaha bb3000s is another masterpiece Japanese build) and kept Fender from going completely belly up. We all owe Dan big time!