Why are cheap cans better than my Shure SE535's?

[StudioGC]

I had a chance to A/B my Shure 535's with a cheap set of over ear headphones.

I've been practicing in the same studio with the same bass, same DI set up and yesterday I forgot my Shure SE535 IEM's so I used my practice over ear headphones. Some cheapo's I got from Jeff Bozzo's site.

The week before I was complaining about my bass tone and then yesterday I was surprised that my bass sounded really full and clear with the over ears.

I've tried my own home made custom molds for my IEM's, but found a set of foam tips that really fit the best and I believe they work well because I really can't hear anything else when I have my IEM's in.

Thoughts on this? Should I be looking at a better set of IEM's? I really never use an amp anymore so I'm happy to invest that amp money into the best set of IEM's I can get.

 

[seamonkey]

A good ear seal is needed.
As you insert the IEM's open your mouth wide and shove them in. This gives me a good seal. YMMV. Next step is to get some molded ear pieces. They do the job for others who can't get a good seal with regular ear pieces.

As long as you play good, there is no shame in wearing headphones of IEMs. Many band through history have done it. Just do it and play good.

 

[Samatza]

I use a cheaper, single driver Audio Technica IEM. I find that with a good seal they sound great.

I tried my drummers 535s and they are even better.

You need to get not only a good seal, you need to make sure the foam tips are not pushed too hard into your ear canal as they can somewhat collapse and block the driver.

This can create the phenomenon of a good seal but they won’t sound right.

 

[silky smoove]

Lots of IEM snobs, myself included, feel that at least a 3-way IEM is needed for clear representation of bass guitar in IEMs. The 535s have three drivers but it's a 2-way system with one driver for highs, and then two drivers for everything below that. Your IEMs may be presenting the critical range of your bass in an unflattering way that is more easily handled by the cans you've tried. Pure speculation on my part. I will say that once I stepped up to custom IEMs I'll never go back to universal fits. The difference is astonishing for my ears, but as a point of reference I've screwy ears that simply will not hold earbud type headphones at all, so YMMV.

You'll experience this with IEMs and cans across the board as it's lagely, if not entirely preferential to the end user. I was gifted some very expensive Senheiser cans about 10 years ago and was extremely stoked until I tried them and found the sound to be dreadful for my taste despite the high price point and known professional brand. Conversely I've got a handful of these cheap Monoprice cans that I bought as a throw-away pair to keep in my office, and they sound absolutely wonderful despite the low price and very much not-pro brand name.

 

[two fingers]

Different physics. Much larger drivers in the cans.

I would be interested in knowing how well they seal. In other words, how well would they work in a band setting?

 

[silky smoove]

Different physics. Much larger drivers in the cans.

We have to be careful with this distinction. For reference, my 64Audio N8 IEMs which have 9 drivers per ear produce bass guitar frequencies better than any larger driver cans that I've ever experienced. At 9 drivers per ear each driver is VERY small. It's also an alarmingly high quality product with a custom mold for ear fit. My point being that driver size doesn't appear to be much of a factor, although I completely agree that the difference in physics is huge between the two types of systems.

 

[MDBass]

I had a chance to A/B my Shure 535's with a cheap set of over ear headphones.

I've been practicing in the same studio with the same bass, same DI set up and yesterday I forgot my Shure SE535 IEM's so I used my practice over ear headphones. Some cheapo's I got from Jeff Bozzo's site.

The week before I was complaining about my bass tone and then yesterday I was surprised that my bass sounded really full and clear with the over ears.

I've tried my own home made custom molds for my IEM's, but found a set of foam tips that really fit the best and I believe they work well because I really can't hear anything else when I have my IEM's in.

Thoughts on this? Should I be looking at a better set of IEM's? I really never use an amp anymore so I'm happy to invest that amp money into the best set of IEM's I can get.
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I personally don’t care for Shure IEM’s: every pair I’ve heard has been really underwhelmingz

I even own a pair of their “flagship” 846se’s that I bought as a backup to my custom models IEM’s, and they sound incredibly boxy and muffled: even compared to my $150 pair of Bluetooth earbuds.

They seal great, they just don’t sound very good.

Sennheiser makes much better sounding generic tip IEM’s in my experience: if I had a contact there I would have picked up a pair of their 900’s instead of the Shure set.

 

[StudioGC]

We have to be careful with this distinction. For reference, my 64Audio N8 IEMs which have 9 drivers per ear produce bass guitar frequencies better than any larger driver cans that I've ever experienced. At 9 drivers per ear each driver is VERY small. It's also an alarmingly high quality product with a custom mold for ear fit. My point being that driver size doesn't appear to be much of a factor, although I completely agree that the difference in physics is huge between the two types of systems.

Yikes......just looked up the price on the 64 Audio N8 IEM's!

 

[J-Mags]

Those cheap cans sound great is why! I use them for tracking when I record, and I check mixes on them to make sure they sound good on decent cheap cans.

 

[JRA]

Should I be looking at a better set of IEM's? I really never use an amp anymore so I'm happy to invest that amp money into the best set of IEM's I can get.

sounds to me like you should be using your "cheap cans" --- you already have something that delivers great bass "tone."

 

[fokof]

I have some 535 with custom mold and they sound amazing.
The fit is crucial in any IEM

Not fair to compare cans , even cheap ones , with non-fitted IEM.

 

[fokof]

.....my 64Audio N8 IEMs which have 9 drivers per ear .....

In full range speaker design , combining multiple speakers is a tough task : aligning phase , comb filtering , cross overs frequencies , box design ,etc.....

2 drivers has been a nightmare for speaker designers for decades , I can only imagine the amazing quantity of problems in combining 9 drivers to cover 20-20k and in a very space on top of that !

 

[silky smoove]

In full range speaker design , combining multiple speakers is a tough task : aligning phase , comb filtering , cross overs frequencies , box design ,etc.....

2 drivers has been a nightmare for speaker designers for decades , I can only imagine the amazing quantity of problems in combining 9 drivers to cover 20-20k and in a very space on top of that !

I’m sure there’s all sorts of comb filtering happening. That said, phase relationships are just a part of a system’s characteristics and not necessarily a bad thing. The bottom line is that the IEMs I’m referencing sound incredible in spite of, or specifically because of the phase relationship.