Why are most 115 combos 200watts and most 210 combos 500watts ?

[Davyo]

I'm just curious why most 115 combos are typically 200watts and most 210 combos are 500watts ?
As examples, GK MB series, Fender Rumbles, Ampeg Rockets and many others.

Thanks in advance for any answers to my curiosity.
Cheers, Davyo

 

[WillyW]

because 2 x 10 is 20

but 15 will get you 20...

 

[S-Bigbottom]

One voice coil to push, and two voice coils to push.

 

[Davyo]

We'll, as one example, the newer GK Legacy and Fusion 15" combos are 800watts with an ext cab but pushing 400watts to its single 15" driver without an extension cab, but those combos are are rare exception of 15" combo with more than 200watts.

Ya can go separate's and get a 15" cab and 1000watt head and pump 500watts into a 15" driver, why isn't that done with combos ?
It just seems odd that most 15" combos only get 200watts ?

Davyo

 

[Yahboy]

Marketing thing on most brand combo range.

 

[sjors]

What I can think of ( in this example ) , is that there are mainly two technical/electronical restrictive causes .
Whatever the brand , these manufacturers have to make money , so in the production lines they use the not too expensive , generally available electronical parts for the amplifiers in these combo's , such as :

- Affordable , budget speakers , with voice coils that can not handle more than 150 - 200 Watt RMS each !

- Ordinary amplifier parts , like the heavy filter-capacitors in the power supply sections , which are available in max. voltage limited-versions , such as : 63 Volts , 80 Volts , 100 Volts and up.
The higher the max. voltage-grade , the more expensive they are ! ( ...and that counts for all the other parts inside as well. )
... f.i. : So when you open an 200 Watt max. , transistorized amplifier , and you look inside of it , you will notice that the manufacturers always have installed the cheaper 63 Volt types ,.....and when you open a ( more expensive ) 300-350 Watt RMS transistorized amplifier , you'll see the 80 Volt types.

....and so on....

 

[Old Fart]

The Subway 115 is 400 Watts and the 215 is 800 Watts. Which makes perfect sense if the typical 210 is 500 Watts. Also, I reject the premise that today's 15" drivers are still rated to the same 200 Watts as the glorious but wimpy EVM 15s of decades ago. Respectfully.

 

[scottfeldstein]

Ya can go separate's and get a 15" cab and 1000watt head and pump 500watts into a 15" driver, why isn't that done with combos ?
It just seems odd that most 15" combos only get 200watts ?

You can get a 115 cab and perch a 2000 watt amp head on it and, theoretically, push 1000 watts to it. Why don't they make combos like that?

The answer is probably that most 15" drivers aren't engineered beyond a 400-450 watt limit. If you want to throw that many watts around, aim it at a larger number of speakers. To my mind, a 500 watt head is already almost overkill for a single driver of any size. What you would do if you wanted to make a 115 combo is put a 500 watt @ 4 ohm amp on it, then make the cab 8 Ohms, so it gets maybe 300. Put a cab extension port on the back and everyone's happy. The marketing people get to put "500" on the label, the player gets the option of an external cab.

 

[Stewie]

So you can stack your 500 watt 210 combo on top of your EVM 15B cab and have the best of all choices. Or you can leave the 15 home and be fine?

To get to the other side?

 

[-Stingray]

I wish I understood why so many players are enamored with 15" speakers.

They aren't better....really.

Most players will be happier with a 2x10 or 2x12 cab.

 

[scottfeldstein]

I wish I understood why so many players are enamored with 15" speakers.

They aren't better....really.

Most players will be happier with a 2x10 or 2x12 cab.

Yeah, I'm done with them. I think the sweet spot with these days for light-medium gigging players is 12s. You can use one, or use both.

 

[dbsfgyd1]

I'm just curious why most 115 combos are typically 200watts and most 210 combos are 500watts ?
As examples, GK MB series, Fender Rumbles, Ampeg Rockets and many others.

Thanks in advance for any answers to my curiosity.
Cheers, Davyo

I have two Eden combos, a 210 and 115. Both are rated at 320 watts.

 

[J Wilson]

Let's say the measured output of the 500w/210 is close to the measured output of the 200w/single 15, it should be relatively close.

Two ways to bring the 15 up to match:

Engineer a single 15 to stand up to that output, which will raise the buy-in considerably, not a lot of 15's in that neighborhood. I'm guessing an output gain of around 3db, plus it's going to be a relatively heavier driver.

Or . . .

Raise the output of the single 15 to say 250 or 300w, and run a second 15 in a second matching extension box. Got that same 3db jump in a far cheaper, do-able product. You can buy off-the-shelf 200-250w 15's all day long for way less money than Option #1. Output wise they should be roughly even on stage.

I'm supposing the market for a Sound Reinforcement grade 500w full range 15 in a combo is going to be a very slow seller at the price you're going to have to have for it, especially in this Class D age where people are walking away from combos for 5# heads and 25# cabinets.

 

[Killing Floor]

If you need 500 Watts do you really need a combo? That's not a knock on combos or saying splits are better. Just that 500W is a lot of power. To fully capitalize on that you'd need to put some pretty robust drivers in the rig or just always have unusable headroom.

 

[scottfeldstein]

If you need 500 Watts do you really need a combo? That's not a knock on combos or saying splits are better. Just that 500W is a lot of power. To fully capitalize on that you'd need to put some pretty robust drivers in the rig or just always have unusable headroom.

Agree. A "500 watt combo" should really just be a 250 watt combo with its own 8 Ohm cab...with the capability of a doing a second 8 ohm cab for a full 500 watts.

 

[Old Fart]

I wish I understood why so many players are enamored with 15" speakers.

Well for one thing, a 15" speaker has roughly the surface area of two tens. They move a LOT of air. Overall, fifteens are still my favorite. That said, there are ten 10" speakers, three 12" speakers and three 15" speakers in my professional bass rig arsenal.

Most players will be happier with a 2x10 or 2x12 cab.

Tell that to all those seasoned bass players here who have reported their perception that perhaps the best bass cab available today, pound-for-pound, is the Mesa Subway 115. I wish I had a nickel for every time I read a glowing TB review of that cab.

 

[Luther]

I wish I understood why so many players are enamored with 15" speakers.

They aren't better....really.

Most players will be happier with a 2x10 or 2x12 cab.

Blasphemy I say, Blasphemy !!!!! LOL.

 

[SJan3]

You can get a 115 cab and perch a 2000 watt amp head on it and, theoretically, push 1000 watts to it. Why don't they make combos like that?

The answer is probably that most 15" drivers aren't engineered beyond a 400-450 watt limit. If you want to throw that many watts around, aim it at a larger number of speakers. To my mind, a 500 watt head is already almost overkill for a single driver of any size. What you would do if you wanted to make a 115 combo is put a 500 watt @ 4 ohm amp on it, then make the cab 8 Ohms, so it gets maybe 300. Put a cab extension port on the back and everyone's happy. The marketing people get to put "500" on the label, the player gets the option of an external cab.

You mean like MarkBass.

 

[Davyo]

Blasphemy I say, Blasphemy !!!!! LOL.

From my personal experience I think 10's seem to fart out easier than 15's with my low B.
But obviously not all 10" cabs and 15" cabs are all created equal.

Cheers, Davyo

 

[Doctor Morbius]

... And the real answer IS ...

To up-sell people on more amp than they probably need.