Why are people afraid to use their gear?

[alex1fly]

Why not just make a pencil mark?

That works too

My point was that you shouldn't be afraid to adjust your settings

Nor should you buy an identical rig just to avoid adjusting your settings. That is crazy talk to me

 

[tb-player]

Everything you'll ever need, right here:

 

[red_rhino]

I think it's as simple as "some people enjoy the signal processing aspect of tone creation while other people don't". Personally, aside from a compressor, most pedals don't really do much to inspire me. Some people here have pedalboards that weigh more than an SVT and have more switching, routing, and power supplies than the NASA Artemis space capsule.

To summarize: More playing, less tweaking.

 

[FullumMusic]

That I understand. I know that you can't just adjust stuff at home and then expect it to work everywhere. Though I feel like that there's quite a few people out there, that will go to a venue and not change anything, because they feel like that's not the right thing to do. Even if it would benefit the situation. Afterall, there's plenty of people who play gigs without a sound guy, or even without a PA all together.

Yeah, i mean, leaving everything flat and refusing to adjust for the situation seems just as weird as setting to "your settings" and refusing to adjust. Right? Like all of these "tone sculpting" knobs are just tools to adjust for the situation. Whether your base-line is everything flat then adjust, or your base-line is your go-to settings then adjust, it would seem silly to not adjust if needed.

But beyond that, you can use pedals and even amp settings to change the timbre of your sound to a degree that a sound guy couldn't. I feel like playing an electric instrument, that's bound to be amplified, there's a lot of things you can do. And I'm a big proponent of using different pickup configurations to change your sound. A P pickup in it's normal position has a quality that a single coil in bridge position will never have. Further, a pedal could produce a sound, that you wouldn't get otherwise. Which is why I don't feel comfortable just leaving it all up to the sound guy, when I have a specific idea of what my sound should be.
All the problem frequencies in the room, can then be taken care of afterwards.

It depends on the the pedals. If you're talking FX more than processing, yeah. A FOH engineer at Regular Joe's Average Music Venue isn't gonna have outboard Chorus and Delay, etc, and know how and when you need them, and turn them on and off at the right time. And that's kinda beyond their job requirements anyway. So yeah, using your FX pedals live is necessary.

But something like EQ? Say you set your EQ to get a certain tone you otherwise wouldn't get. Then the engineer hears the bass tone in the mix out of the mains in the room and it's resonating at a certain frequency, and some other frequencies are lacking. So the engineer adjusts the EQ on the board, essentially undoing your "tone sculpting" EQ adjustments. You can play with your tone all you want going into the board and none of it really matters because the FOH engineer is going to adjust it to make it sound right coming out of the mains with the rest of the instruments in the room.

Of course, some venues have more robust PAs than others, so sometimes your amp settings are vital, and other times they're gonna be overridden by the FOH engineer (and you probably won't know it.)

Yes, a P and a single coil J sound different. That, to me, just exemplifies why i work the way i do. They have their sounds. Playing with your EQ isn't gonna make the P sound a Bridge J or vice-versa. Playing with your EQ will just boost or lower certain frequencies of the P or Bridge J tone. Nothing magical will happen by setting your EQ or compressor that'll give some far-off tone. The bass will sound like the bass, but with some freq ranges bumped or cut, and then compressed an amount. And then once it's coming out the Mains, regardless of what bass is being played, P, J, Humbucker, Harley Benton, Ritter, don't matter. Different rooms have their own frequency responses. Different PA amps and loudspeakers have their own frequency responses. Different instrumentations have certain frequency ranges where instruments can breathe and others where they start masking or crowding each other. Hoping to get a unique tone divorced from the room and the instrumentation is a fool's errand, because any halfway decent sound engineer will be adjusting it if it needs, undoing your own settings.

So, for me, if the bass sounds good, just make it louder. I let the bass sound like it sounds and the amp sound like it sounds. Maybe it's my decades of production experience shaping my perspective, but bass guitars all sound like bass guitars. They all sound slightly different, but they all sound like bass guitars. Other than the most drastic Synth Emulation or Mu-tron type FX, no matter what your chain, it's still gonna sound like a bass guitar. I look at processors (eq, compression, etc) as tools to adjust the bass to the situation, not as ways to find a magic bass tone (that doesn't exist.) Those tools aren't what makes the tone. The bass makes the tone. The tools just adjust it slightly.

I also don't understand why you would want to record completely flat. You can always take two signals, which I would recommend anyways. And if you're planning to just record it once with one signal, then I feel like you should be set to what you want it to sound like in the mix anyways.

If you're recording with one signal, you can't set it how you want it to sound in the mix because you don't have the mix yet. The mix only exists when all the instruments are recorded and you can listen to them together. I capture the sound of the bass and then adjust it for the mix once the mix exists.

When i record other people, i'll run direct & mic the amp. But the mic'd channel needs to sound good in the control room. I would still have them set the amp flat to just get the sound of the bass & amp "au natural", so to speak, and then make sure the mic position is just right to capture the sound of the amp. Then listen in the control room and see if there are any EQ adjustments needed on the amp. The problem with EQing and pressing all the tone buttons on the amp is... having the un-EQed, un-altered, un-processed signal is way more flexible. There's nothing wrong with setting the EQ on the amp and the recording that and getting the amp-sound on the recording if you need it. But... hmm.. Instead of trying to explain it with my producer/engineer hat on, i'll let the great Chuck Rainey explain it for me as a bassist: (Starts at 57:56 if the video doesn't automatically start there.)


Recording myself, i just get one signal out of the DI of my amp. Bass to the amp; amp gain to the sweet spot; EQ flat; DI to my interface. I just want the clean signal. If i need to do any crazy tone manipulations, i'll be doing that in the box with my plugins and editing. I've never recorded myself direct AND mic'd the amp and thought, "wow, these sound so amazingly different, good thing i have both." I honestly could use either and be happy, so why waste my time setting up a mic and getting the position just right and all the other things that have to do with setting up a mic when i can just run an XLR from the DI Out to my interface and capture my bass signal nice and clean, so i can add or remove what's needed when i hear it in the mix. Or, if i'm gonna be putting insane FX on it, doing that in my DAW is much more powerful than running some pedals.

Again, just why i do it this way. Not trying to be argumentative or say this is the right way.

 

[Pings Bass]

It's possible to be a musician and a gear head, and be good at both, as well a enjoy both

But it can be easy to get distracted by gear, to the detriment of getting better as a musician.

Personally I enjoy music more than fiddling with tools, and can get lots of tonal variety by varying my technique.

 

[Deleted member 271037]

I believe alot of gear nowadays is designed to still be usable at their most extreme settings.

This just isn't the case at all. Even a simple thing like an active bass preamp has plenty of room to completely ruin your tone, typically by boosting the lows far too much.

If we're talking specifically about eq there's also the fact that a bass player on stage will have absolutely no idea what the bass sounds like in the audience. Making extreme eq adjustments on stage is a nearly always a very bad idea, or at least it will make the job a LOT harder for the FOH engineer.

If we're talking about other effects it will depend on the genre but using lots of effects with extreme settings is usually not a good idea with bass guitar for more genres of music. Compression is an exception, but it needs to be done right. Any "extreme settings" on most compressors will certainly ruin the tone completely.

Keeping it simple isn't about "shying away from getting the most out of gear". It's about getting the BEST out of your gear and getting a tone that actually works IN THE MIX (unless you're a virtuoso soloist, the bass is the main instrument and your signature tone happens to be heavily processed).

Of course, if using lots of effects and extreme eq settings work for you: GREAT! Whatever works. But in MY experience it's better to avoid extreme eq on stage and leave these decisions to the engineer.

 

[Savage_Dreams]

I was just saying that I don't understand why people would not adjust anything, when pretty much all controls on an amp, bass, pedal, are designed to be used. And often even designed to be used at their extremes.
When you hear Marcus Miller talk about the Sire basses, he says that they designed the preamp to still sound good even at the most extreme settings.
Similar to when David Nordschow talks about the amps he designs. He says that the controls should be usable at their most extreme settings.
As I said, that's not how all gear is, and I don't think everybody should set their mid gain to 11, but I'm trying to show that there's no technical reason why you shouldn't experiment around and turn stuff up or down.
Kinda like how the typical tube screamer User puts the level all the way up, and the drive all the way down (or was it the other way around?).

so what if it sounds good at extreme settings. Can’t the opposite be true and still sound good at flat settings? It’s meaningless to turn a knob just because it’s there. It should all be used with purpose, in whatever way that means.

 

[Jeff Hughes]

Musical gear is not really one size fits all. Sometimes a player does one gig for years and one setup works. Sometimes you need different tools. There are only a few styles of pop or rock music where the bass tone sets the overall character of the music. Mostly we are fitting in to an established stlye that might need pedals, eq, active electronics, etc.

I buy all used guitars pre dented and dinged. So I have never cared much about playing them out. I have nothing of that much value that if stolen would be impossible or too costly to replace, but I know some people do have those things.

Maybe people try to keep everything pristine to somehow delay that feeling you get when something is brand new. Or maybe they just like stuff to look nice for resale purposes. I knew someone that bought auxiliary cases for his instruments so the originals could be kept in storage and in good shape.

 

[mambo4]

Once you get a decent bass + amp,
It takes a pretty good piece of gear to be better than no piece of gear

 

[edot3021]

Because that is what works for them?

If you have a great bass and amp you are most likely tweaking the EQ for the room. Not sure what you are getting at. You don't NEED all that much, but I always found myself more creative if I made myself work in a box.

 

[Rip Van Dan]

I know it's a bit of a clickbaity title, but that's what came to mind.

I've read quite a few comments on TB, where people will say that they use only a bass and an amp for gigs, and even home usage. Furthermore, I've read plenty of people say that they don't adjust their EQ, don't buy any effects, basically don't do anything but use their fingers, maybe bass, maybe a slight amp adjustment.
Now I was wondering, why?

I get that people like a simple solution, where they just plug in, turn on the amp, and they're off to the races. But at the same time, many spend quite a lot of time trying to find the right bass and the right amp.
Why would you try to find the perfect amp, instead of adjusting the EQ on your current one, until you like it?
I've heard people say that adjusting EQ too much will cause it to sound unnatural, or that when you have to do that you should better just get a different bass / amp altogether.
I don't quite understand where this came from, because I would assume that when you get a nice piece of gear with a couple of knobs, you would assume that all of them are usable to their extremes. I know that that's not always the case, but I believe alot of gear nowadays is designed to still be usable at their most extreme settings. And even if not, they usually have quite a bit of adjustability.
Why would you not want to take advantage of that?
When I look at all the outboard gear, and more commonly nowadays, plugins that producers use, I feel like I should not ever shy away from trying to make the most of the gear that I have.

This isn't really meant as a critique of the people that use such minimalistic setups, but I would like to know if someone could explain it a bit further to me.
I can tell you, I'm not content with the notion that too much EQ makes it sound unnatural. To me an amplified bass signal already sounds completely unnatural, compared to the electric bass played acoustically, or compared to any other acoustic instrument.

TLDR: I have pursued gear that gives me the native sound of my '82 Jazz Bass with clean, clear, and articulate sound. I add a little boost at the amp in the low mids typically at 250Hz or 500Hz. On one amp I add a small amount of Bass boost to ~1 o'clock to get to the sound my other amps have with the Bass EQ flat. I can change the sound of my bass on the fly by changing the position of my plucking hand. I don't use any pedals except for my WTDI to make a backline amp of some other brand that I'm forced to use sound like my Eden/DNA gear.

The Details:
I'm one of those folks who are really picky about their gear and getting just right amps and cabs for the venues I play. I've been playing bass since 1965 and my first amp was a brand new 50-watt all-tube Fender Bassman with its new large 212 cabinet. When I started touring with a nightclub group in 1971, I found out very quickly that I was under-gunned and bought a Standel MCIIb/SAM30b that was way too loud for most places we played, so I had to keep the volume control down to #3(9 o'clock on a clock face). Then in 1976 all my touring gear was stolen including my 1965 Jazz Bass and for the next 20 years I spent all my $$ raising 3-kids and playing guitar at weddings and parties.

Then in 1985 I bought my current Jazz Bass ('82 with white bound maple neck) but didn't have an amp to use until 1997. Started gigging again and then got transferred to Vermont 1998 and in 2005 to Virginia. Finally in 2006 I started gigging again with what I considered hobbled together gear. As I played gigs I upgraded gear.

A real eye opener for me was in 2008 when I bought an Eden Nemesis RS400 amp. That was Eden's mid-range series and I hoped it would be better than running the GK115 and Sunn 212 cab with a GK Backline 250 amp. I was amazed because suddenly I discovered clear, clean, and articulate sound. Had too much power for my Sunn 212, which only handles 100-watts, so I needed to get another cab. Got an acoustic B410 on sale and I could get a good sound and plenty of power out of it. I was actually pretty happy with that sound.

Before this I had twisted dials all over the place with other amps trying to get a decent sound and never really being happy with the results. Never had an amp with such a clear sound. Besides the bass, low-mid, high-mid, and treble EQ's, it also had a semi-parametric control that went from 40Hz up to 10KHz. Was suggested to me on the Eden forum to try running the EQ flat and boosting the low mids at 250-Hz to 500Hz just a bit for better presence and definition. So I tried it a number of places with a little boost at 250Hz or 500Hz being my favorite sounds. Settled finally on just a little boost up to about 1:30 at 250Hz.

I'm using a passive Fender Jazz with this and I dime all three knobs on the bass. The passive Jazz has what they call "grease pot" controls that only cut signal and tone and never boost them. An active bass by contrast can cut and boost. So I run them both wide open and add a little low-mids boost to get a sound that I really like. If I want a little or a lot brighter sound, I'll move my plucking hand towards or even over the bridge pickup. If I want a darker sound I move my plucking hand up by or over the bottom frets of the neck. I can make significant changes in my sound just by changing where I pluck the strings.

Then in 2010 a bought an Eden gold-face WT500 twin powerblock amp that had been upgraded to 400-watts rms per channel and 800-watts rms bridged. I bought it directly from David Nordschow, the founder of Eden, because he left Eden in 2009 to start his new company DNA (David Nordschow Amplification). It has three semi-parametric controls, one for each octave of sound on a bass. Still used the same slight boost in the low-mids although I could use those semi-parametric to find out if the room boosted or cut any particular frequencies and I could at least partly compensate for that. Sound was better yet because I could use the "balance" control to adjust the mix of power and thus the sound between the 115 (which was a boomy cab) and the 410. Gigged that until I left VA in 2015.

2-days before our move I received the DNS-410 cab by DNA that I had lusted for and saved for since it was released in 2010. Now I had a single cab that could handle 1400-watts rms and was far louder and better sounding than my 410+115 stack. It has a super clear clean and articulate sound with a very tight and focused bottom end. It is so articulate that if you play bass chords, you will clearly hear all three notes of the chord. I bridged my WT500/800 into it at 800-watts into 8Ω and promptly got told to turn down at a wide open outdoor music festival. Had to keep the master below 10:30. Thought I was done buying cabs.

Then I found out real quick that I couldn't use that cab at small venues like brew pubs. Owners would freak out when I rolled my 410 in and make me use their small backline amp, typically a 112 combo. Bought a WTDI because I just couldn't get the sound I wanted out of that little Peavey 112 combo and we played at that brewpub on most Friday nights. The WTDI is a stompbox DI that has a built in Eden WT preamp.

I plugged my WTDI into the effects-in/return of that little Peavey amp which bypassed the Peavey preamp and sent my Eden preamp right into the power section of the Peavey amp. Suddenly I had that sound I knew and loved and the Peavey sounded like an Eden amp. I've since done the same thing on lots of different brands (Ampeg, acoustic, GK, MarkBass, etc.) and they all end up sounding like an Eden amp, which I like a LOT.

Eventually I bought an Eden EX-112 cab for the small venues and ran it with my RS400. Then I bought an Eden TN-226 (225-watts rms into 4Ω) class D amp that weighs 4.7-lbs specifically to play small venues and everything was good. Then in 2019 I was admitted to the DNA Endorsing Artist group and I purchased a DNS-210 cab (handles 700-watts rms) for the medium-sized venues and found I could just use that one cab with my WT500/800 for all my indoor venues. Now I just use the DNS-410 for outdoor gigs and music festivals. I'll still pull out my small Eden amp and 112 cab for the small venues because I can haul it all in or out in one trip and it sounds really good.

I really like the lightweight of the class D amps and in 2021 I bought a DNA-800 (800-watts rms into 2 or 4Ω, 400-watts into 8Ω). The factory was out of them and waiting on parts but David had enough parts on-hand to make one for me, so David built one for me himself and signed it. It doesn't have any of the semi-parametric controls that I like so much in my Eden gear, but it has very musical centers for its 4-band EQ and I typically dial it in with a boost in Bass EQ (35Hz) to ~1 o'clock and boost in low-mids (500Hz) to ~1:30. Just like that, I'm back at the sound I like. The amp has a great built-in compressor with adjustable threshold and ratio, and at just 4.8-lbs, it weighs over 30-lbs less than my big Eden amp in its case.

My approach has been to get amps and cabs that have a really clean and clear sound without any baked in sound other than some tube warmth like I get out of big Eden amp with its hybrid preamp and my small Eden class D amp with its Golden Ear chip (THAT-4301) that among other things does a nice job of emulating tube warmth. The sound that comes through is the sound of my bass. It's a different sound than other Jazz basses that have the 3.6" center to center pickup spacing instead of the 70's era 4" center to center spacing on my '82 Jazz. Any bass I put through it will have the native sound of that bass. I have a 5-string bass that I occasionally use and although it has a decent sound, it is definitely different than my Jazz.

So I'm definitely in the minimalist group. I depend on my amp to get clean, clear, articulate, and powerful sound reinforcement of the sound that is native to my bass. I add that boost in the low mids because it gives me that presence and definition that I need when playing with a 5-pc group without the need of overpowering them with the sound level. I want a good balance of sound in the bands I play in, but I want to make sure I can hear each and every note that I'm playing. I do have one pedal that my son gave me for Christmas. It's an electro-harmonix Bass Clone which is a chorus pedal. Although I have had it for a couple of years now, I haven't played a gig with it yet. I just love the sound I'm getting out of my bass and my gear without pedals so it's hard for me to make the plunge.

 

[InhumanResource]

I know it's a bit of a clickbaity title, but that's what came to mind.

I've read quite a few comments on TB, where people will say that they use only a bass and an amp for gigs, and even home usage. Furthermore, I've read plenty of people say that they don't adjust their EQ, don't buy any effects, basically don't do anything but use their fingers, maybe bass, maybe a slight amp adjustment.
Now I was wondering, why?

I get that people like a simple solution, where they just plug in, turn on the amp, and they're off to the races. But at the same time, many spend quite a lot of time trying to find the right bass and the right amp.
Why would you try to find the perfect amp, instead of adjusting the EQ on your current one, until you like it?
I've heard people say that adjusting EQ too much will cause it to sound unnatural, or that when you have to do that you should better just get a different bass / amp altogether.
I don't quite understand where this came from, because I would assume that when you get a nice piece of gear with a couple of knobs, you would assume that all of them are usable to their extremes. I know that that's not always the case, but I believe alot of gear nowadays is designed to still be usable at their most extreme settings. And even if not, they usually have quite a bit of adjustability.
Why would you not want to take advantage of that?
When I look at all the outboard gear, and more commonly nowadays, plugins that producers use, I feel like I should not ever shy away from trying to make the most of the gear that I have.

This isn't really meant as a critique of the people that use such minimalistic setups, but I would like to know if someone could explain it a bit further to me.
I can tell you, I'm not content with the notion that too much EQ makes it sound unnatural. To me an amplified bass signal already sounds completely unnatural, compared to the electric bass played acoustically, or compared to any other acoustic instrument.

It’s a means to an end. The end I seek is playing on stage, so the less time I spend setting things up and fiddling with knobs, the better. I found a comfortable bass that sounds nice and clear and looks cool. No need for effects, so I don’t own any. Not chasing sims kind of imaginary concept of tone, so no extra EQ things are needed. Dial in something that works and then focus on the gig.

 

[lbbc]

I had an Alembic Persuader.... awesome bass but wouldn't take it to pool parties or dive bars. I always took my backup bass. I wouldn't be terribly upset if it got a little wet or even get a little damage....but I would if it were the Alembic. That's my story

 

[Eilif]

I can't speak to those that never turn a knob beyond the volume, but as far as simple setups, for my gigs (mostly rock and country) I rarely need more than a bass and an amp to sound great and I don't turn the knobs much either. If a situation requires I bring a pedal or do something a bit different, I'm probably game for it, but it's been well over 30 years and a bass and amp with minimal adjustment still does it most times.

I do wonder if it comes at least partially from starting out playing upright bass, where your technique changes your tone and extraneous gear just doesn't come into it. Alot of times changing hand position/location is as good as a control adjustment.

As for the side issue of folks not feeling comfortable bringing good gear to gigs, except for gigs with a danger factor (very rare) my best gear gets gigged. I see no point in owning a bass that I'm not willing to enjoy live and to share with the audience and my fellow musicians.

 

[Nev375]

So you've got the middle set between two bands and you get your gear on stage and the soundman lets you play a couple notes for soundcheck. you play a couple notes but something isn't quite right...

is it a cable? is it the amp? is it any one of who knows how many pedals? what about the patch cables? batteries? the DI? you did change your strings, right? is there something wonky with the room acoustics? which one of those EQ knobs is the right one to turn? Wait or is it a knob or switch on the bass? when you put the battery in did one of the connectors feel lose to you? is it just your imagination or did you forget your meds again? you know there was something weird about that weed. wait, am i saying this outloud?

Theres a few hundred people in the audience staring at you. The soundman looks seriously impatient and unhappy. the singer is looking at you and facepalming.

What kind of setup do you want in this situation?


personally, i like to go simple. your mileage may vary.

 

[Bar Band Bassman]

And some folks loves ham hocks and some folks loves pork chops and some folks loves vegetable soup...

And we all love CARROTS!

 

[Spidey2112]

More playing, less tweaking.

Truth!

 

[Bar Band Bassman]

A couple of thoughts. If a bass or amp does not sound good to me with all the settings flat I'm leery of gigging it because I don't want to endlessly tweak it to get to a starting point and then try to figure out what to add or remove to suit the current performance situation. I'm not really into outboard effects but I keep an LPB-1 on hand for some lower gain basses and just ordered an HPF Technology high pass filter to quickly "tighten up" my sound in boomy rooms. Lots more gigs for me in warehouse environments these days. Should've done it years ago!

The Bar Band Bassman

 

[JSandbloom]

If you look up the list of of the 10 best selling albums in history and you'll notice that most if not all of them used a meat and potatoes bass setup. If simplicity is good enough for them....

 

[Fynn]

It really is down to some people preferring turnkey, while others want something tweakable, and others still find supreme enjoyment out of bending a piece of gear to their will with an epic struggle.

I used to turn my EQ knobs like I was tuning an old-timey radio early on, now I leave mine close to flat and tweak with a much lighter hand....typically to far better results (utilizing more cut than boost too). These days I want to spend more time playing and less time fiddling with my gear, so having something near impossible to screw up is nice. I like having options that I don't HAVE to use, so I guess that's middle ground? I'd be the person with active EQ on my bass but just leaving it flat all the time.

Well, I rarely touch the EQ on my basses too... But that's more due to my OCD maybe. I would always put the controls to the middle notch. It really is a miracle that I can leave my Warwick blend knob at a specific position that I set...