Why are people obsessed with weight??

[Dark Horse]

OK - take 5 minutes and research how much a 1977 Precision Bass weighs.

I'll wait for your answer.



I've had '77 P's that weighed 8.2 lbs and some as heavy as 12 lbs. Same with Jazz's. It's just more common that they ( mid-late 70's Fender basses ) heavy ass, clumsy and not very well built. Every once in a while you can stumble on a 'good' one.

Exactly - which is precisely the reason that asking "how much does the bass weigh" not only a "valid" question, but a "good" one.

But a 'good' mid-seventies Fender bass is still not to be compared with a Fender bass from 1966 back......night and day.

That's a comparison that you can't actually make with any certainty. I had a 77 P Bass that smoked the vast majority of Pre-CBS P Basses I've played (literally hundreds). Yeah, some Pre-CBS ones were better than this 77, but most were not. Oh, and the 77 weighed just over 7 lbs. In most cases I would agree with you, but making a blanket statement that "1966 and earlier is better" is not necessarily accurate.

 

[mongo2]

I went to a local shop at lunch today and found an Epiphone JCS that is the lightest JCS I've ever played at 7lbs 12oz.

 

[fenderbassman55]

Exactly - which is precisely the reason that asking "how much does the bass weigh" not only a "valid" question, but a "good" one.




That's a comparison that you can't actually make with any certainty. I had a 77 P Bass that smoked the vast majority of Pre-CBS P Basses I've played (literally hundreds). Yeah, some Pre-CBS ones were better than this 77, but most were not. Oh, and the 77 weighed just over 7 lbs. In most cases I would agree with you, but making a blanket statement that "1966 and earlier is better" is not necessarily accurate.

Your kidding right? : )

 

[lomo]

Some players care a great deal about weight, others scale length, others string spacing , neck profile , wood or pickups, some obsess over every detail, and others barely care how many strings there are. We all have our own reasons.......it really isn't hard to wrap one's head around that, at all.

 

[fenderbassman55]

Some players care a great deal about weight, others scale length, others string spacing , neck profile , wood or pickups, some obsess over every detail, and others barely care how many strings there are. We all have our own reasons.......it really isn't hard to wrap one's head around that, at all.

Well stated!

 

[Dark Horse]

Your kidding right? : )

Why in God's name would I be kidding ?

If you've played any reasonable amount (10+) Pre-CBS Fenders than you've likely played at least one "dog".

They aren't all "sprinkled with magical fairy dust".

Th great ones are near untouchable. The bad ones are pretty bad. In 10 pre-CBS Fender Basses you'll probably find one or two "great" ones, one or two "dogs", and the reast will be pretty darn good.

As for the 77 - It was a fricking AMAZING bass...I never should have sold it. Better than the "vast majority" of pre-CBS ones I've played.

 

[RickC]

It's been bothering me and I gotta ask....why are people so obsessed with the weight of a bass? Almost every FS thread I see has somebody inevitably asking "what does it weigh?? what does it weigh??"

Why does it matter? Why the obsession? I never cared about weight as I figured most any bass in in between 8 and 11 pounds, and there are other factors that matter more. I'll take a heavy bass that's properly balanced over a light neck diver any day. Maybe these people are weak and can't hold up a bass?

Why are people obsessed with the color of a bass, or the way it looks. Almost every FS thread I see has somebody inevitably asking for a pic. What's up with that? Why does it matter? Why the obsession with looks?

I mean, it's not like these things have *any* bearing on the way a bass plays or sounds, the way weight does.

 

[kerrycares]

to me everything matters on some level... color, feel, sound, appearance, construction ......

its not just light basses,it's light gear!
when i started playing everything was heavy. as a guy that works a day gig ,given a peference I'd rather not carry a 100 lb cabinet , 11 lb bass in a hardshell case and a 25 lb head to my gigs and rehearsals................especially on a friday at the end of the work day and gig night....................
thank God for modern technology.

i switched to a Fender Jazz Deluxe 5 that weighs 7.5 lbs, a 800 watt SWR Marcus Miller Golight 4 X 10" cab Weight: 54 lbs. (24.5 kg) , and a lightweight head.

life is much better and there was no sacrifice in sound

 

[fenderbassman55]

Why in God's name would I be kidding ?

If you've played any reasonable amount (10+) Pre-CBS Fenders than you've likely played at least one "dog".

They aren't all "sprinkled with magical fairy dust".

Th great ones are near untouchable. The bad ones are pretty bad. In 10 pre-CBS Fender Basses you'll probably find one or two "great" ones, one or two "dogs", and the reast will be pretty darn good.

As for the 77 - It was a fricking AMAZING bass...I never should have sold it. Better than the "vast majority" of pre-CBS ones I've played.

OK. As I mentioned there are a very rare 1 or two mid seventies basses that are very decent. I happen to use mostly 1971-2-3 models of both Jazz and Precision basses. I find after 1974 the quality, fit, finish and general vibe are inferior to the lets face it, the superior quality of early sixties pieces. There are exceptions to everything of course as may have been the case with the '77 you maybe should have kept. I deal basses, only Fender's and hundreds have passed through my hands and I am blessed enough to own some older models. Seriously, do you really believe these mid 70's measure up in anyway to their older cousins, if you do cool.
We will just have to disagree on this one. Back to thread a light 63 Fender Precision bass will win hands down over a 78. Look at the prices, there's your answer. Cheers and rock on! FBM55

 

[Dark Horse]

OK. As I mentioned there are a very rare 1 or two mid seventies basses that are very decent. I happen to use mostly 1971-2-3 models of both Jazz and Precision basses. I find after 1974 the quality, fit, finish and general vibe are inferior to the lets face it, the superior quality of early sixties pieces. There are exceptions to everything of course as may have been the case with the '77 you maybe should have kept. I deal basses, only Fender's and hundreds have passed through my hands and I am blessed enough to own some older models. Seriously, do you really believe these mid 70's measure up in anyway to their older cousins, if you do cool.
We will just have to disagree on this one. Back to thread a light 63 Fender Precision bass will win hands down over a 78. Look at the prices, there's your answer. Cheers and rock on! FBM55

And as I stated, the problem was that a "blanket statement" was made, and was incorrect.

If you think that I said "most" mid-late seventies live up to the pre-CBS ones, well then you need to work on your reading comprehension skills. I simply said that "some" do. Nothing more, nothing less.

"Cost" is not an indicator of how good something is necessarily. The most expensive bass on Ebay is a Mosrite Ventures model for $55,000. Does that mean that it is three times better than the $16,900 1958 Precision that is also on Ebay ? Of course not.

You deal basses...great. I made my sole living for 12 years on vintage instruments, and have been owning/buying/selling/trading vintage basses and guitars since the late 70's when I got my first Rickenbacker at the age of 10. So yeah.... thousands have passed through my hands too. And yeah, my opinion is based on my experience with those thousands of instruments. And yeah, I found some mid-late 70's instuments that were incredible, and some pre-CBS ones that were flat out "crap".

If you gave me a choice between a 64 and a 77, yes I would gravitate toward the 64....but I would PLAY the 77 just to be sure that it wasn't the "better bass".

 

[fenderbassman55]

And as I stated, the problem was that a "blanket statement" was made, and was incorrect.

If you think that I said "most" mid-late seventies live up to the pre-CBS ones, well then you need to work on your reading comprehension skills. I simply said that "some" do. Nothing more, nothing less.

"Cost" is not an indicator of how good something is necessarily. The most expensive bass on Ebay is a Mosrite Ventures model for $55,000. Does that mean that it is three times better than the $16,900 1958 Precision that is also on Ebay ? Of course not.

You deal basses...great. I made my sole living for 12 years on vintage instruments, and have been owning/buying/selling/trading vintage basses and guitars since the late 70's when I got my first Rickenbacker at the age of 10. So yeah.... thousands have passed through my hands too. And yeah, my opinion is based on my experience with those thousands of instruments. And yeah, I found some mid-late 70's instuments that were incredible, and some pre-CBS ones that were flat out "crap".

If you gave me a choice between a 64 and a 77, yes I would gravitate toward the 64....but I would PLAY the 77 just to be sure that it wasn't the "better bass".

I guess I can't win. I have never touched a 100% cared for pre CBS Fender bass that was crap. Many are abused and altered, but not a bone stock model.
No not 'Fairy Dust' makes the older models better, it construction, eye for detail and the wood itself which makes them hands down better.

I was not comparing pricing for Mosrites. A 77 P bass 100% w/ case has a market value of about $1400-$1700 depending on color. A '63 Fender Precision 100%, with OHSC sunburst in VG condition has no trouble,even in these times reaching 6K plus. WHY?
You know why as well as I do, it's a superior instrument. PERIOD...

As I said, you with all your knowledge, should have recognized that selling your prize '77 was a boo boo.
Good luck to ya! : ) FBM55

 

[Dark Horse]

I guess I can't win. I have never touched a 100% cared for pre CBS Fender bass that was crap. Many are abused and altered, but not a bone stock model.
No not 'Fairy Dust' makes the older models better, it construction, eye for detail and the wood itself which makes them hands down better.

I was not comparing pricing for Mosrites. A 77 P bass 100% w/ case has a market value of about $1400-$1700 depending on color. A '63 Fender Precision 100%, with OHSC sunburst in VG condition has no trouble,even in these times reaching 6K plus. WHY?
You know why as well as I do, it's a superior instrument. PERIOD...

You made the comparison that "greater price = greater bass". (Look at the prices, there's your answer.)

The Mosrites price is inflated because of rarity, not because it is a better bass. PART of the pricing on pre-CBS instruments is ALSO due to rarity. You cannot dispute that. The other part is "demand". That doesn't necessarily mean "better"...it just means that more people want them That could mean "better", but it could also mean "people are TOLD that they are "better". There are lots of people who buy an instrument because of what some people "say", not because it is necessarily "better".

And yeah, I've played "crappy" stock pre-CBS instruments. Enough to dispel "dealer" rumours that they are all "great instruments".

Again, I'll say "MOST per-CBS are better... but not ALL.

As I said, you with all your knowledge, should have recognized that selling your prize '77 was a boo boo.
Good luck to ya! : ) FBM55

Being a wise-ass isn't called for. I'm sure with the "hundreds" of Fenders that you proclaim to have sold (and in your own words "none were crap"), I'm sure you still own every single one of the ones that were great (which you make seem like "all" of them).

Business is business, you know that. When you make a living buying and selling, that's what you do...and if someone offers the right amount of $$$, you sell it.

Me...I'm not in the business anymore...I left because I just didn't love it anymore... especially some of the dealers that would say anything just to weasel money out of the pockets of unsuspecting customers. So I have no reason to make "semi-correct" blanket statements and perpetuate them as gospel truth.

The fact is that MOST pre-CBS instruments can be counted on to be better than they're later counterparts, but not ALL.

Have a nice day.






PS - ask Matt from Rancid about his 77 P Bass. It is his main bass on stage and studio, and he can EASILY afford pre-CBS ones (and likely owns some)

 

[lomo]

Certainly true that scarcity (and therefore, indirectly, age) in proportion to demand affects vintage prices waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more than quality.

 

[marcau]

semantics...

 

[fenderbassman55]

You made the comparison that "greater price = greater bass". (Look at the prices, there's your answer.)

The Mosrites price is inflated because of rarity, not because it is a better bass. PART of the pricing on pre-CBS instruments is ALSO due to rarity. You cannot dispute that. The other part is "demand". That doesn't necessarily mean "better"...it just means that more people want them That could mean "better", but it could also mean "people are TOLD that they are "better". There are lots of people who buy an instrument because of what some people "say", not because it is necessarily "better".

And yeah, I've played "crappy" stock pre-CBS instruments. Enough to dispel "dealer" rumours that they are all "great instruments".

Again, I'll say "MOST per-CBS are better... but not ALL.



Being a wise-ass isn't called for. I'm sure with the "hundreds" of Fenders that you proclaim to have sold (and in your own words "none were crap"), I'm sure you still own every single one of the ones that were great (which you make seem like "all" of them).

Business is business, you know that. When you make a living buying and selling, that's what you do...and if someone offers the right amount of $$$, you sell it.

Me...I'm not in the business anymore...I left because I just didn't love it anymore... especially some of the dealers that would say anything just to weasel money out of the pockets of unsuspecting customers. So I have no reason to make "semi-correct" blanket statements and perpetuate them as gospel truth.

The fact is that MOST pre-CBS instruments can be counted on to be better than they're later counterparts, but not ALL.

Have a nice day.






PS - ask Matt from Rancid about his 77 P Bass. It is his main bass on stage and studio, and he can EASILY afford pre-CBS ones (and likely owns some)

As I said before friend, we will have to choose to disagree. I am not being a wise ass I was being rather friendly. you seem to feel that your opinion is the only one out there because of your past experiences playing and selling pieces. Cool, i repect that.

But your argument just does not hold water. I am not the only soul who recognizes the quick demise of Fender workmanship from Leo's time until the end of the 'CBS' era.

As I also stated, I use early 70's P and J's cause they are still fairly LIGHT and semi- well built. Perfect when your '66 Jazz is not the appropriate bass to take to most club, pub gigs. And a 71 Jazz can still fetch over 3K easy on open market.

I have sifted through dozens of candidates ( 60's-70's ) Fender basses and have kept for myself, the ones that 'have it'. Tone, colors, originality and above all else LIGHTWEIGHT plus playability.

I am not a full time dealer. I sell maybe 4 100% original Fender basses a month on the Bay. I purchase most simply to resell in order to make $$ to buy more for my own collection.

Most of these models are mid- to late 70's as they are readily available and easy to work on and resell. I agreed with you more than once that maybe 1 out of 20 is decent all around.

Relax, we are not here to argue. Original thread is about weight. There are no 12 lb '64 Jazz basses out there.

Buyers do and will continue to pay high prices for early Fender basses. They simply do not make them anymore. the wood is aged, and they are very well built.
Cheers.
FBM55

 

[Dark Horse]

But your argument just does not hold water.

My "argument" is simply that the blanket statement of "all pre-CBS Fenders are better than mid-late 70's Fenders" is incorrect...or at best, only a partial truth.

For about the 5th time, "most" are...but not "all".

You cannot dispute that making a "100% certain" statement about pre-CBS Fenders being "better" cannot be proven (but CAN be disproven), and therefore, cannot be "truth".

Assuming I'm not "relaxed" is another incorrect assumption you've made. I'm plenty calm. In fact I just finished building another bass, watched some Olympic skiing, and had a nice lunch...I'm nearly as "relaxed" as a person can be.

Life is good. So are most pre-CBS Fender Basses...but not all.


Have a great day !

 

[fenderbassman55]

My "argument" is simply that the blanket statement of "all pre-CBS Fenders are better than mid-late 70's Fenders" is incorrect...or at best, only a partial truth.

For about the 5th time, "most" are...but not "all".

You cannot dispute that making a "100% certain" statement about pre-CBS Fenders being "better" cannot be proven (but CAN be disproven), and therefore, cannot be "truth".

Assuming I'm not "relaxed" is another incorrect assumption you've made. I'm plenty calm. In fact I just finished building another bass, watched some Olympic skiing, and had a nice lunch...I'm nearly as "relaxed" as a person can be.

Life is good. So are most pre-CBS Fender Basses...but not all.


Have a great day !

OK then. I reckon more folks would agree, if they could have their hands on a 63 P bass that weighs 8.5 lbs, or a 1978 P that weighs 8.5 lbs and $$ not an issue, they could pick one period, I can almost guarantee the 78 would be the loser.

Cheers, thread about weight, remember!

Have a nice day!

 

[mongo2]

OK then. I reckon more folks would agree, if they could have their hands on a 63 P bass that weighs 8.5 lbs, or a 1978 P that weighs 8.5 lbs and $$ not an issue, they could pick one period, I can almost guarantee the 78 would be the loser.

If $$ wasn't an issue then for me it would depend on which one sounds and plays better.

 

[coreyfyfe]

OK then. I reckon more folks would agree, if they could have their hands on a 63 P bass that weighs 8.5 lbs, or a 1978 P that weighs 8.5 lbs and $$ not an issue, they could pick one period, I can almost guarantee the 78 would be the loser.

I can almost guarantee I'd take the 78. I strongly dislike the look/feel/sound/idea of rosewood and much prefer the look of the 70s style logos (earlier 70s > later 70s > 60s IMO).

Not everyone holds pre-CBS basses on such a high pedestal. I've played a few, nothing about them won me over any more than my 70s p or jazz that I already have (both bought for their sound and playability, not for their "vintage").

On the weight issue, to keep this on topic, I don't so much mind weight. My P, Jazz, and DJ5 all weigh about the same (Lakland says 9.5ish) but my G3 is certainly lighter. I don't really notice much difference playing them over the course of a few hours.

 

[fenderbassman55]

I can almost guarantee I'd take the 78. I strongly dislike the look/feel/sound/idea of rosewood and much prefer the look of the 70s style logos (earlier 70s > later 70s > 60s IMO).

Not everyone holds pre-CBS basses on such a high pedestal. I've played a few, nothing about them won me over any more than my 70s p or jazz that I already have (both bought for their sound and playability, not for their "vintage").

On the weight issue, to keep this on topic, I don't so much mind weight. My P, Jazz, and DJ5 all weigh about the same (Lakland says 9.5ish) but my G3 is certainly lighter. I don't really notice much difference playing them over the course of a few hours.

Good points. Believe me I like my early 70's Fenders too or i would not own or play them. Its not about vintage. Its about my belief the earlier models are Alder, they are sculpted nicer, nicer paint / finish. Much better pickguards, just better quality. I prefer maple necks hence the use of my 70's. See my picture on my ID here of a featherweight 76 P I recently sold.
It's all good. It's all a matter of taste, choice and opinion. FBM55