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Why are standalone preamplifiers a dying breed?

What do you think about standalone bass preamps

  • I wish there were more options for standalone bass pre's

    Votes: 89 28.3%

  • I think there are plenty of options for standalone bass pre's

    Votes: 70 22.2%

  • I get everything I need from integrated heads

    Votes: 91 28.9%

  • I used to use bass pre's, now I used studio channels

    Votes: 12 3.8%

  • I went fishing once. I like ice cream. Durr Hurrrrr....

    Votes: 53 16.8%
  • Total voters
    315
pablomigraine

pablomigraine

Commercial User
Feb 9, 2005
3,458
611
New York
neuraldsp.com
Disclosures
Director of Commercial Sales - Neural DSP
#1
I've been a Separates / Components guy for several years, after being disappointed with most integrated heads. As I said in another thread recently, integrated heads always seemed to fall into one of two categories; OK sounding head without enough power, and nice sounding head without enough power. (with the Carvin B1500 being the only exception Ive seen)

I'm in a pretty loud band, and I tour, so sometimes I run two large cabinets. I need 2 ohm capability at least half of the time, and tons and tons of clean power. Ive also come to the personal conclusion that the power driving a cabinet is AT LEAST as important as the preamp or bass I'm using, and most integrated heads just dont put out enough juice. Most of my peers / contemporaries feel the same way.

So, I guess I'm wondering why separate preamps are going the way of the dinosaur? Not so long ago, a touring bassist had a great many excellent choices in preamps. Not so any longer. These days if you want a rackmount preamp you're pretty much limited to choices:

Sansamp RBI / RPM / PSA
BBE B-Max / B-MaxT
SWR Marcus Miller (brand new item)
Alembic
Mike Pope
Eden Navigator (shortly to be discontinued)

Just a few years ago you had at least a dozen more choices from Ampeg, Aguilar, Ashdown, Trace, Peavey, SWR, GK, Epifani and several others.

These days a lot of touring guys I know are turning to studio recording channels... often reluctantly, owing to the fact that they're usually much more expensive, and their superior sound qualities are often lost in a live setting. Offerings from Avalon, Millennia and Universal Audio being good examples.

Aguilar made some of the greatest tube preamps Ive ever heard, and the Ampeg SVP-Pro is still my favorite choice.

What do you think TB? Were preamps such a specialized market that lacking sales necessitated discontinuation... or was it something else?

Anyone wish there more standalone preamps available?
 
#5
dmusic148 said:
I think the answer is simply that 'heads' have really gotten a lot better in the last 5 or so years. It's totally possible to have it all these days. For example, take a look at the Mesa M9.
Click to expand...

Thats another great example I had neglected to include as being amongst the "Exceptions".....

Supposedly my peoples from frozen forests of the north will be introducing something that will solve my problem shortly... we shall see...

JimmyM said:
Never owned a pre/power rig in my life because I never thought they had any great advantage over a head. Still don't.
Click to expand...

noted..... but do you compete with the likes of THIS:

222378.jpg

When I say I need watts... I mean I need WATTS!!
 
#6
personally i wish more companies would make standalone preamp versions of their heads. of course, it is a specialty market and heads have gotten a lot better. In the USA, sadly i think that live music is becoming less and less popular which may contribute a bit to the decline in the number of products a given company makes. Additionally, once you get to a certain volume level you're generally reliant on the PA rather than the amp.
 
#7
pablomigraine said:
noted..... but do you compete with the likes of THIS:

View attachment 142136

When I say I need watts... I mean I need WATTS!!
Click to expand...
All I can tell you is Angus and Malcolm Young use like 5 Marshall stacks apiece and Cliff Williams uses two SVT 2 Pros and two 810's for a grand total of 600w. Granted, you're not playing in AC/DC, but there's more to being competitive with a too-loud guitarist than watts IMHO.

In any event, I'm so glad I'm out of that fight.
 
#8
I like having 1000 watts atop my Acme B-4 cabs and that kind of power in an integrated head can be expensive. I've opted instead for the pre / power configuration. Watts is cheap....I don't recall ever paying more than $350 for a used power amp. This also gives me the luxury of swapping out pre's every time the seasons change and, man-o-day, I've been through a few!

Riis
 
#9
+1
Zooberwerx said:
I like having 1000 watts atop my Acme B-4 cabs and that kind of power in an integrated head can be expensive. I've opted instead for the pre / power configuration. Watts is cheap....I don't recall ever paying more than $350 for a used power amp. This also gives me the luxury of swapping out pre's every time the seasons change and, man-o-day, I've been through a few!

Riis
Click to expand...
 
#11
I think it has alot to do with marketing and how much money a company makes off of a head. When you think about it youre probably overpaying for a poweramp when you buy a head. I also think that having the ability to change your power over the years without losing all of your tone is a very important thing. and people should realize that watts isnt a good measure of volume and that alot of your tone comes from the power behind the amp.
in fact with stereo equipment a good rule of thumb is that doubling your wattage will increase the volume about 3db. Which is the lowest incriment audible to most human ears.
 
#12
I get everything that I'd really want out of my Carvin heads. That being said, I would still love to see more options available for bassists that want separate preamps and power amps. Even if I never used one, the more options that other players have the better.
 
#15
I do agree that while 1000 watts is not necassary there is a difference in the sound when you have that much headroom that is a fact that cant be disputed.
Some cabs do require alot of power to even work properly yet alone reach there potential for example I have a BagEnd 4x10 8ohm coaxial and if I dont run it at 500+ watts the highs will clip badly.My Aguilar cabs dont even start to wake up until you push them with lots of power like 750 plus.
There are alot of rigs that will sound okay with less power but they dont have the control over the speaker travel that higher wattage units will,the more wattage you run the quicker the speaker will travel out and then be pulled back in if you dont believe this then hook up to low wattage amp and watch the speaker travel at a decent volume then do the same with 3 times the wattage and you will see and hear that there is less travel from the speaker and it will sound better with much less travel "it wont look so lazy".
like I said Im not arguing that lower wattage rigs arent adequate Im saying that they could sound better even at lower volumes with more power "with in reason of course"
JimmyM said:
1000w...LOL ;)
Click to expand...
 
#18
Im not talking about turning up any louder than you normally would so I guess it just depends how loud you are playing,if a 2x10 is plenty then that explains it but when your trying to run a GS212 and a Eden 2x10 at a moderatly loud volume then you NEED some Horse Power to sound good.
Like I said its all about headroom and speaker control.
JimmyM said:
If I ran ANY cab at 500w, I would get canned on the spot.
Click to expand...
 
#19
JimmyM said:
1000w...LOL ;)
Click to expand...

It's not that simple. Check out the tuning and SPL of the Acme410;)

Just saying 'you only need 300 watts' does not make it so. There are many different cabinet SPL's and combinations, playing circumstances, tone goals, and playing techniques that often require a LOT of whats to produce that tone at even moderate volumes.

Try slapping a modern bass with new stainless steel roundwounds into a low tuned, low SPL cab with 300 watts at some gig volumes and see where that gets you. Of course, that's not your thing, but you might be surprised that there are a lot of different playing styles and contexts out there, some of which that might require a more substantial rig than might be needed for other styles and tone goals.
 

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