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Why are standalone preamplifiers a dying breed?
- Thread starter pablomigraine
- Start date
First admission: I am NOT a working heavy metal high volume player. So, if you don't want my input then ignore it.
Second, you did not mention Demeter or Kern, which along with Alembic, pretty much have delivered the tones most separates guys look for. Since you did not mention two of the better ones, I don't know how to interpret your post. Are you aware of these other two choices, but don't think they deliver? Part of your answer may be a feeling that for big rigs, there are already some pretty good choices out there - so, why spend the money to compete (just sayin' from the manufacturers view).
Third: yes I believe the big amp manufacturers have focused on where they can sell more product, and it is not in separates, partly because of the massive improvements in the integrated heads. I mean at 4.5 Lb, the recently announced Shuttle 9.0 is likely to be more than enough amp for 90% of the working bassists out there. That's it. Simple economics and technology at work.
Honestly, I believe you still have some good choices available to you. If you don't care for the tone delivered by Alembic, Demeter, or Kern, then you will probably have to get more exotic.
Good luck, hope you find what you are looking for.
Right. Let's just attribute the reason you like your tone to the only thing that's really important...your effects
aaaaaaaand back to the topic.
+1
YEs, of course, I forgot to mention both of those, but it was not meant to be an exhaustive list. My point was that recently discontinued items outnumber available items 3 to 1, and why.
Not really looking for anything .... just more choice... and TB's opinion on market dynamics that may have affected this particular kind of item.......NOT a wattage / loudness / sound debate.....
:scowl:
Sorry, not what I meant. I simply meant that while I have gigged the Alembic, for example, it was used in the context of club gigs, not super loud metal stage acts. So, I honestly don't know what the tonal aspects of the different units in that scenario are. That's all.
More modeling pre-amps
Something that will take updates from the manufacturer. Something that provides models for many amps.
Of course a lightweight lowcost PC will do it just fine.
More amp makers need to talk to IK and get an officially endorsed models of their amps. The independent developers are getting really good at creating models. Manufacturers will loose out if they ignore this growing market.
Something that will take updates from the manufacturer. Something that provides models for many amps.
Of course a lightweight lowcost PC will do it just fine.
More amp makers need to talk to IK and get an officially endorsed models of their amps. The independent developers are getting really good at creating models. Manufacturers will loose out if they ignore this growing market.
My view is that it might simply be a market thing. Right now, the "buzz" is all about the micro heads, so that's what you hear about, and it's what the makers are rushing to develop.
Normally I would shrug my shoulders and be content to see what the next fad brings. However, this is one gear trend that I happen to be delighted with.
I'm not jumping into the fray about how many Watts are needed, but only making my observations about market conditions.
Normally I would shrug my shoulders and be content to see what the next fad brings. However, this is one gear trend that I happen to be delighted with.
I'm not jumping into the fray about how many Watts are needed, but only making my observations about market conditions.
jimmy that was awesome man. haha he sure is getting his moneys worth lol. and for the record. zero effects
There is most definitely a difference in feel under your fingers
with a more powerful head. Also, if you play a 5 string bass,
that low B or C is going to need much more power than a high
B or C would need to produce the same volume and impact.
Much of the backline I get is still an SWR 900 with 8x10's, or
the Eden equivalent just for stage volume
Sometimes it seems you have the attitude that if "it" works for
you, how could "it" not work for anyone else? Some players
might be more expressive than you, volume wise. You might be
a very mono-tonal player when it comes to volume. Never any
highs or lows volume wise. Try slapping a low D without having
enough power behind it, even at a low volume.
Interesting on all points. All I can say is that I went from a combo to an Eden WT410 with a D210XST Neo 4 ohm. I run it at the same volume level at the little church but the difference in sound QUALITY is amazing. I can also go somewhere else with plenty of available decibels to spare. Although a little costly, this was the best purchase I have made. BTW, I can get any sound I need without hassle and have the capability of adding more cabs and many other options with this head. It took me while to finally decide on this one.
I would also mention that a 1 rack space preamp with a built in amp is totally possible these days. 1ru form factor would suite my fancy better than gig bag size.
I think that if the PA amp market ever put out a one space rack amp that put out decent power bridged into 4ohms without melting, and without being 20" deep, it would really re-invigorate the bass pre market.
If, for example, Acoustic Image came out with their Clarus+ power module in a rack mountable unit the size of the markbass F1, there would be a lot of cats that would go for a nice one rack space pre like the Pope, and a power amp like that, in a lightweight 2 space rack that would way 20 pounds or so total.
IMO!
.....
Yes, I use a lot of power.... I run two big cabs at volumes many players would consider insane.... I'm a touring rock / metal bassist. Everything I own is racked.
Seriously kids.... if you're a coffee house / bar player and the loudest thing you've every needed was a Markbass LM and 210... you cant really comment objectively here...
I think you've answered your own question. Not many bassists have applications like yours. I don't know the figures, but I'll wager 90% or more play venues equal or smaller than your average bar, or play in "quieter" bands with PA support. These situations are, as you point out, easily handled with smaller, lighter gear. Small market=small volume=small number of offerings.
Since I don't want to get scowled at again, I'm not going to continue this discussion aspect in this thread. I'm sure there will be plenty of opportunity to take it up elsewhere.
Interesting thread. I think one of the reasons there aren't too many new designs nowadays, is that there are still a lot of great designs from years ago, and those can be had much cheaper. On the other hand, small, digital amps from years ago do not exist, so the companies are concentrating more on that...
I've never played one of these, nor even laid eyes on a real one (even though I believe they still make them), but the clips on [Invalid or Expired Link Removed] make me want to get one!!!!!!!!
Invalid Link Removed
I've never played one of these, nor even laid eyes on a real one (even though I believe they still make them), but the clips on [Invalid or Expired Link Removed] make me want to get one!!!!!!!!
Invalid Link Removed
Planet Boulder
Hey, this is a private residence...man
- Nov 10, 2001
- 4,014
- 65
- Disclosures
- I once had impure thoughts. Oh, and I pluck my ear hair.
My G-K 2001RBP preamp has been my fave for a long time and it will continue to be my fave. I absolutely love that preamp (traded an Eden Nav for it and I've never looked back) and I like having the ability to pair it with one of my power amps.
I also have an old Trace Elliot preamp that I like to pair with an even older Trace power amp.
Wouldn't get rid of either of them, even though I often use my G-K 800RB (as I did the past two nights) or my G-K RB700-II.
It's all a matter of preference. For smaller gigs, I'll probably just take the 800RB or the rack setup that includes the RB700-II, but for larger clubs (and for ones I don't mind hauling around extra stuff), I'll take the G-K 2001RBP and pair it with my 1600 watt power amp.
I also have an old Trace Elliot preamp that I like to pair with an even older Trace power amp.
Wouldn't get rid of either of them, even though I often use my G-K 800RB (as I did the past two nights) or my G-K RB700-II.
It's all a matter of preference. For smaller gigs, I'll probably just take the 800RB or the rack setup that includes the RB700-II, but for larger clubs (and for ones I don't mind hauling around extra stuff), I'll take the G-K 2001RBP and pair it with my 1600 watt power amp.
Wow, this thread really does deliver. Ya just never know. Anyway, I've never ever used a seperate pre/power rig in my life, and most likely never will. There are so many great bass heads available these days, it's easy to find something that'll work out fine. Take the Mesa Walkabout for example. Small, lightweight, and full of supreme tone, in a modest power size. Though I regularly use a much more powerful head, the fact is those 300 Mesa watts are really all I need, with enough speakers of course.
bongomania
Commercial User
I agree with those who suggested it's the current market, with the largest percentage of consumers buzzing around the new micro heads and the next-largest percentage buying big "traditional" heads or combos.
I also agree that if one of the market leaders in micro/ultralight amps was to put out a 1 RU power amp, there would be a bit more interest in separate preamps. Note: those old Peavey 1RU's don't count, they are not the current technology, and the old Stewart 1RU was never really 1RU anyway since you had to allow extra rack spaces for cooling to avoid shutdown.
I think too, maybe speaking mostly for myself here, that the consumer who likes the idea of separate components is the sort of person who has very particular ideas about which features and functions they want in a preamp; and every preamp ever made is "not quite right", for enough people, that it's sort of a doomed prospect from a commercial unit-moving standpoint.
For example I might love the tone of a certain preamp, but not be happy with the EQ controls. Or I might get all the controls I want, but not the tone. People that settle on a certain preamp tend to decide to overlook the niggling bits that aren't "perfect", because after a while it's not worth thinking about compared to just playing the instrument.
There is the new Markbass modular preamp, but TBH I'm not thrilled with the selection of modules they've created so far. And anyway, 2RU preamps like that and like the Marcus SWR or Eden Navigator may have plenty of desireable features, but who wants to carry around a big rack anymore?
My present tendency would be to have a strictly utilitarian non-tone preamp onstage, with pedals for tone shaping.
Another thing to consider is that the Markbass F1 goes for pretty cheap used these days, and you can stack four of them in a space much smaller than an SVT head, and four F1's should provide all the wattage and cab-choice flexibility you'd need even for the big rig. Heck, if four's not enough, get a couple more.
I also agree that if one of the market leaders in micro/ultralight amps was to put out a 1 RU power amp, there would be a bit more interest in separate preamps. Note: those old Peavey 1RU's don't count, they are not the current technology, and the old Stewart 1RU was never really 1RU anyway since you had to allow extra rack spaces for cooling to avoid shutdown.
I think too, maybe speaking mostly for myself here, that the consumer who likes the idea of separate components is the sort of person who has very particular ideas about which features and functions they want in a preamp; and every preamp ever made is "not quite right", for enough people, that it's sort of a doomed prospect from a commercial unit-moving standpoint.
For example I might love the tone of a certain preamp, but not be happy with the EQ controls. Or I might get all the controls I want, but not the tone. People that settle on a certain preamp tend to decide to overlook the niggling bits that aren't "perfect", because after a while it's not worth thinking about compared to just playing the instrument.
There is the new Markbass modular preamp, but TBH I'm not thrilled with the selection of modules they've created so far. And anyway, 2RU preamps like that and like the Marcus SWR or Eden Navigator may have plenty of desireable features, but who wants to carry around a big rack anymore?
My present tendency would be to have a strictly utilitarian non-tone preamp onstage, with pedals for tone shaping.
Another thing to consider is that the Markbass F1 goes for pretty cheap used these days, and you can stack four of them in a space much smaller than an SVT head, and four F1's should provide all the wattage and cab-choice flexibility you'd need even for the big rig. Heck, if four's not enough, get a couple more.
