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Why aren't small tube combos being made?

#21
Bass frequencies require a lot more energy to achieve equivalent loudness to an electric guitar. This is simple physics: a shorter cycle in the treble area doesn't take the horsepower to sound as loud as a longer cycle -- moving more air -- does in the bass area. A 15w guitar amp is usable; a 15w bass amp is pitiful. The lowest power bass amp I've used was a 40w B15N, and it would not have cut it in the kind of live band I usually gig with, consisting of a loud drummer, cranked up guitar and lots of dancers on the floor.

I have several guitar amps in the 15-40w range, and I can do pretty good with those.

I gigged with a 100w bass combo, with a DI into the PA to get the required level.

So: a tube bass amp, to be marketable, has to have a bit of power to justify its added expense and weight over solid state, and where's the point of NOT giving it the power needed to be heard with a band? A low-power tube bass amp would have a vanishingly small market.
 
#22
JimmyM said:
there's no way to shock mount it to minimize it?
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There are ways, but you also need to dampen the vibrations in the whole combo, baffle the sound pressure from the tubes, secondary to chassis mounts (the Ampeg V4-B mounts were a wonderful idea) you would need secondary isolation for the largest tubes (the power tubes). The more you do to isolate, the larger it becomes. I have seen so many frustrated tube combo owners, thinking they are "blowing speakers" or the "lows just suck". [Secret, power tubes can be microphonic also).
Guys out here now already complain about the small things with new amps out today, "It is junk because it had a noise/ didn't sound like a real SVT (while being 10lbs and 500 watts). I would not want to subject myself to a "Small all tube combo" in today's market. People out here would ruin your name. Building out the problems would make it expensive and larger than people are looking for. (Look at the Neo-pack, Little Mark, MB2-500 ect....) All IMO of course:cool:
 
#25
Why?

If it was well made, it would be pricey, get ripped for not being very loud and would weigh too much. There, said it.

For the fun of it, I ran up a design for a 50 Watt 1-15 combo last winter. Parts cost was sneaking up on $750, and my rough weight calc was 60 - 70 pounds. If I was to go into production with something like that, I wouldn't set the price anything under three times the raw materials cost.

I figured absolutely nobody would buy such a beast at that price. Wadded up that design and used it to start a roaring fire in my hearth.
 
#28
SpamBot said:
Wouldn't vibration be a problem to all tube amps, as 90% of the time they are sitting on top of a cab? I would imagine an SVT at full blast gets a lot more vibration than a 15W combo.
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as someone who owns both, this is very true. both are shock mounted, though, and neither really have much of a problem with vibration killing tubes.
 
#29
B-string said:
I agree JimmyM the Porta-Flex is viable and will probably never loose fancy.
Today's idea of a small combo is no where near the Porta-Flex though. The Porta-Flex has a place of it's own :D :)
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I couldn't agree more!

The B-15 is a solid piece of engineering. It is constructed in a manner to last a lifetime. Wasn't cheap. Is maintainable. Isn't easy to drag up a flight of stairs. One of the standards of great tone.
 
#30
SpamBot said:
Wouldn't vibration be a problem to all tube amps, as 90% of the time they are sitting on top of a cab? I would imagine an SVT at full blast gets a lot more vibration than a 15W combo.
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Only with a poorly built speaker cab (vibration ridden piece of junk that uses as much power to rattle itself as move air). Seperates dampen in their own seperate speaker enclousure, the head's cabinet provides further dampning. We still have not dicussed cooling and the heat pouring out of the vents (covered by a towel or beverage of your choice).
 
#32
15-30W? Are you kidding me? You couldn't be heard over normal coffee house chatter with that, never mind a drummer and strummer. You add vocals to that mix and your tone is as good as buried.

How about you hit the gym now and again :hyper: so a 60lbs piece of gear doesn't seem so heavy? :rolleyes: Just a thought. ;)

FYI, I play a 400+ with Diesel series cabs, and the tone is worth every pound. :D
 
#33
levis76 said:
15-30W? Are you kidding me? You couldn't be heard over normal coffee house chatter with that, never mind a drummer and strummer. You add vocals to that mix and your tone is as good as buried.
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nonsense. i play in a medium volume oldies band, and i've carried 800 seat theaters with stage volume using only a b-15n.
 
#34
oggdawg said:
Anyone who gets a Musicians Friend / Sweetwater / etc. catalog knows that small tube guitar combos are huge. Every manufacturer seems to make one; 5 watts, $150-$200. I, for one, would buy a 15ish watt, 12" or 15" all tube bass combo for $400 or so if it was available. I'm guessing either such a combo can't be made cheaply enough to sell for $400, or there isn't enough demand. Am I missing something?
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If you've paid attention during your short time on the boards, you'll notice that you are the exception to the rule. In general, most bass players aren't looking for under-powered, heavy and inflexible rigs. Light is in. Flexible is in. Powerful is in. A heavy, cumbersome, 15 watt combo is not and would not sell in sufficient numbers to be worth it.

And before someone whips out that old, tired "tube watts" argument........ooops, too late!
;)
 
#35
levis76 said:
15-30W? Are you kidding me? You couldn't be heard over normal coffee house chatter with that, never mind a drummer and strummer. You add vocals to that mix and your tone is as good as buried.

How about you hit the gym now and again :hyper: so a 60lbs piece of gear doesn't seem so heavy? :rolleyes: Just a thought. ;)

FYI, I play a 400+ with Diesel series cabs, and the tone is worth every pound. :D
Click to expand...

yeah i have the big rig too, for the metal band. but for 90% of music, people dont need to be blasted by the bass. i played a show last month with a 13 peice jazz band (trumpets, sax's, drummer, piano, etc) with a crate 100watt (SS) 1x15 combo. we were in a theater with about 100 people and everyone heard me just fine.
 
#37
guy n. cognito said:
If you've paid attention during your short time on the boards, you'll notice that you are the exception to the rule. In general, most bass players aren't looking for under-powered, heavy and inflexible rigs. Light is in. Flexible is in. Powerful is in. A heavy, cumbersome, 15 watt combo is not and would not sell in sufficient numbers to be worth it.
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and yet b-15's will still go for a grand or more on ebay.
 
#40
Hey Ogg:

Check out Old School Amps. I think they might have what you are looking for. They have a 20 watts all tube bass amp, and another one that is (I think) 80 watts. Here is their website address:

Link Removed

I am not affiliated in any way with them. I just happened to come across their website when I was searching around for a "bedroom" or studio tube bass amp.

Another one would be Fargenamps.com Ben Fargen is a super nice guy and he will custom make an all-tube hand-wired bass amp for anyone who wants one. I had him make me one with an Ampeg B15 type all-tube preamp (two 6SL7's) and 100 watts in the power section via four 6L6GC's like a Fender Bassman. It sounds saWEET! I know he made another guy a 50 watt version as well. His website address is: www.fargenamps.com
 

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